ae: NO, not really, unless it’s a great script. Unless it’s a script that can only be made with the resources you - have access to down there. km: yeah. ae: But so far that hasn’t Ha dened. Maybe with the next one, I mean, maybe. km: Um.. what..Do you have any...what is the next work.. ae:l’ve optioned a novel which ‘an American novel, I casn’t really say what it is right now because I’m just in the process of finalizing all that, but I might make that film using as- pect of that system. You know, cer- tain actors from that system. But, again, I’m not one of these peope who feels that you make films in this country as a calling card to tgo down there... km: yeah... ae: I mean, my carreer and the films that I have made, are films that could only be made in this country and I’m really proud of that. km: Yeah, that’s pretty inspir- ing also to me as a person who, like just coming into this indus- try, I mean, I mostly make docu- mentary, so I’m not dealing with the same things, although you never know, it’s hard to say. But like, looking at the situatiuon, where the money is and film - being a medium tht requires this funding, this massive funding and sets and crews, and trying to see a way around it and looking at your films and going this is a story and these are situations that don’t require this and yet they have as much merit, and like, more, or something...So, it’s really neat that way, that um, you have been able to sort of see around and sort of get around Holly- wood. ae: Yeah, I think it’s important to keep inmind that my career has ben really incremental, I mean, my first film was made for $20,000, on an Arts Council grant, basically...an the second one was make for, you know, double that. You know, it’s been very gradually working up to making a film like Exotica , and then you geta film like Calendar, which was very definitely made with the same type of budget as the first film, just a very marginal type of project. To me there’s nothing very mysterious about film funding, I mean, it has to related to the percieved market of your film. But in order to under- stand what that market is, I mean, you gradually discover it for your- self. It’s a bit dangerous to try to imagine a-market that isn’t there...It’s better to kind of flet that market grow with you. which has certainly been the case with the trajectory of _my Career. km: Yeah, and the market is there. That’s interesting. ae: Yeah, I think so...[ mean, in every | country there are enough people that want to see alternative cinema that you can put the pieces together and find that support. km: What you need. And, it’s almost like, it’s like creating a market and letting the market grow around what you’re do- ing... ae: And being patient with that. It’s a long term process. km: Yeah, really. Everything in film seems to be so long term, it doesn’t happen over night. ae: And that’s the frustrating thing, everyone longs for spontenaiety, and the resuits from doing anything spontaneously are always so refresh- ing, I mean, like, Calendar. was made copmpletely spontaneously, and yet the whole system of film production seems to deny you that. And if you're making documentaries, you have a bit more freedom in doing that than I do in making dramas. km: Yeah, well, that’s something that I’m going through right now, as far as like, there’s sto- ries in my head, that I want to tell I see something and I;’m not going to be able to film it, you know what I mean? But, I want to tell that story and Im not going to be able to get the ac- tual footage, or if I did the ac- tual footage wouldn’t be wouldn’t be what it was because the camera would stunt that, and the microphone would stunt that. But it’s, how to have that spontenaeity, in drama... ae: Well, you have to suspend you’re disbeleif to a certain extent, you have to pretend tha you have a lot more freedom that you really do. You have to forget that you yhave a.crew around you, you have to forget that you have time limits. You have to somehow convince yourself that you have all the time in the world when you know that you don’t. Otherwise you’d just go crazy all the time think- ing that you have to get this done. km: But also, to have good ac- tors, I guess, is important. I mean, you use a lot of the same actors...HOw does that...how do those relationships develop, like, over theyears? Like, I as- sume you must be friends with all these people after working with them for so many years. ae: Yeah, you are, and you become friends, I mean because you’re see- ing them in their most vulnerable State, at some points... km: Yeah, I was interested inyour relationship with Arsinee, and then it goes on from there, like it seems you have a family of who’s in your films. Like it seems to me that these relationships would de- velop, and I’m interested in the dynamics of that. Like work- ing... ae: WEIl, there rea people in your ~ tive of certain things. own mind that become representa- I mean, eve- ryone creates their own private my- thology, you know, and their own iconography and when you use an actor repeatedly theycome to repre- sent certain things to you. And, you have to careful of that too, because in some way you are imposing an image on an actor and they want to try different things or do different things or be capable of different things. km: Right. ae: It is on he other hand an inter- esting sort of short hand, you know, because when you see David Himlin (sp?) at the beggining of Exotica, in the process of inspecting someone to a novice customs agent, I mean, you know that he is this twisted author- ity figure...From all the other mov- ies... km: Yeah, from all the other.. ae: Yeah, and it becomes almost sort of amusing. km: It really interests me in your films how you take those awkward relationships, like the tax guy. He’s got got this situa- tion where... Or, in the adjuster as well, it’s like they’re in an awkward situation and how peo- ple deal with those and try to make it a polite civilised thing. ae: (laughs...) Yeah... km: You know this situation of being audited. trying to be calm, your house is burned down and yu have to go through all your belongings and tell me what you think it’s worth, like, in money. That always amazes me. ae: Well, it’s the Canadianess of the movies, maybe, you know, “BE PO- LITE. BE POLITE AT ALL COSTS.” km: Yeah. But, and then you start to exlore all those masks of society that those things cre- ate. What lies beneath the sur- face is implied. That’s interest- ing. (to David G.) Do you have...can you think of any- thing? David Galloway: My only ques- tion is something that you talked earler about, with the approach of the south offering you oportunities to go down there and direct films. I think my only question is that of a monetary nature, they would probably offer you a lot... ae: Yeah but, you know that de- pends, are you the sort of person that wants a lot of money? Then, you know... But on the other hand, if you write direct and produce your films within this system, and you keep doing it long enough, you will get to ‘the point where you can make a liv- ing at it. Uh, if you want to be in- credibly rich, you are in the wrong country. km: Yeah. ae: So, then, yes, it becomes, you ae: NO, not really, unless it’s a great script. Unless it’s a script that can only be made with the resources you have access to down there. km: yeah. ae: But so far that hasn’t happened. Maybe with the next one, I mean, maybe. km: Um.. what..Do you have any...what is the next work... ae:l've optioned a novel which an American novel, I casn’t really say what it is right now because I’m just in the process of finalizing all that, but I might make that film using as- pect of that system. You know, cer- tain actors from that system. But, again, I’m not one of these peope who feels that you make films in this country as a calling card to tgo down there... km: yeah... ae:I mean, my carreer and the films that I have made, are films that could only be made in this country and I'm really proud of that. km: Yeah, that’s pretty inspir- ing also to me as a person who, like just coming into this indus- try, I mean, I mostly make docu- mentary, so I’m not dealing with the same things, although you never know, it’s hard to say. But like, looking at the situatiuon, where the money is and film being a medium tht requires this funding, this massive funding and sets and crews, and trying to see a way around it and looking at your films and going this is a story and these are situations that don’t require this and yet they have as much merit, and like, more, or something...So, it’s really neat that way, that um, you have been able to sort of see around and sort of get around Holly- wood. ae: Yeah, I think it’s important to keep inmind that my career has ben really incremental, I mean, my first film was made for $20,000, on an Arts Council grant, basically...an the second one was make for, you know, double that. You know, it’s been very gradually working up to making a film like Exotica , and then you get a film like Calendar, which was very definitely made with the same type of budget as the first film, just a very marginal type of project. To me there’s nothing very mysterious about film funding, I mean, it has to. related to the percieved market of your film. But in order to under- stand what that market is, I mean, you gradually discover it for your- self. It’s a bit dangerous to try to imagine a-market that isn’t there...It’s better to kind of flet that market grow with you. which has certainly been the case with the trajectory of my career. km: Yeah, and the market is there. That’s interesting. ae: Yeah, I think so...I mean, in every country there are enough people that want to see alternative cinema that you can put the pieces together and find that support. km: What you need. And, it’s almost like, it’s like creating a market and letting the market grow around what you’re do- ing... ae: And being patient with that. It’s a long term process. km: Yeah, really. Everything in film seems to be so long term, it doesn’t happen over night. ae: And that’s the frustrating thing, everyone longs for spontenaiety, and the results from doing anything spontaneously are always so refresh- ing, I mean, like, Calendar, was made copmpletely spontaneously, and yet the whole system of film production seems to deny you that. And if you’re making documentaries, you have a bit more freedom in doing that than I do in making dramas. km: Yeah, well, that’s something that I’m going through right now, as far as like, there’s sto- ries in my head, that I want to tell I see something and I;’m not going to be able to film it, you know what I mean? But, I want to tell that story and Im not going to be able to get the ac- tual footage, or if I did the ac- tual footage wouldn’t be wouldn’t be what it was because the camera would stunt that, and the microphone would stunt that. But it’s, how to have that spontenaeity, in drama... ae: Well, you have to suspend you're disbeleif to a certain extent, you have to pretend tha you have a lot more freedom that you really do. You have to forget that you yhave a crew around you, you have to forget that you have time limits. You have to ‘somehow convince yourself that you have all the time in the world when you know that you don’t. Otherwise you'd just go crazy all the time think- ing that you have to get this done. km: But also, to have good ac- tors, I guess, is important. I mean, you use a lot of the same actors...HOw does that...how do those relationships develop, like, over theyears? Like, I as- sume you must be friends with all these people after working with them for so many years. ae: Yeah, you are, and you become friends, I mean because you're see- ing them in their most vulnerable state, at some points... km: Yeah, I was interested inyour relationship with Arsinee, and then it goes on from there, like it seems you have a family of who’s in your films. Like it seems to me that these relationships would de- velop, and I’m interested in the dynamics of that. Like work- ing... ae: WEIl, there rea people in your own mind that become representa- tive of certain things. I mean, eve- ryone creates their own private my- thology, you know, and their own iconography and when you use an actor repeatedly theycome to repre- sent certain things to you. And, you have to careful of that too, because in some way you are imposing an image on an actor and they want to try different things or do different things or be capable of different things. km: Right. ae: It is on he other hand an inter- esting sort of short hand, you know, because when you see David Himlin (sp?) at the beggining of Exotica, in the process of inspecting someone to a novice customs agent, I mean, you know that he is this twisted author- ity figure...From all the other mov- ies... km: Yeah, from all the other.. ae: Yeah, and it becomes almost sort of amusing. km: It really interests me in your films how you take those awkward relationships, like the tax guy. He’s got got this situa- tion where... Or, in the adjuster as well, it’s like they’re in an awkward situation and how peo- ple deal with those and try to make it a polite civilised thing. ae: (laughs...) Yeah... km: You know this situation of being audited. trying to be calm, your house is burned down and yu have to go through all your belongings and tell me what you think it’s worth, like, in money. That always amazes me. ae: Well, it’s the Canadianess of the movies, maybe, you know, “BE PO- LITE. BE POLITE AT ALL COSTS.” km: Yeah. But, and then you start to exlore all those masks of society that those things cre- ate. What lies beneath the sur- face is implied. That’s interest- ing. (to David G.) Do you have...can you think of any- thing? David Galloway: My only ques- tion is something that you talked earler about, with the approach of the south offering you oportunities to go down there and direct films. I think my only question is that of a monetary nature, they would probably offer you a lot... ae; Yeah but, you know that de- pends, are you the sort of person that wants a lot of money? Then, you know... But on the other hand, if you write direct and produce your films within this system, and you keep doing it long enough, you will get to the point where you can make a liv- ing at it. Uh, if you want to be in- credibly rich, you are in the wrong country. km: Yeah. ae: So, then, yes, it becomes, you