J: Its really hard to sit down and just all of a sudden
approach a topic like this ... because it’s all about
philosophy and concepts, and virtual things. It’s not
about ‘this is the way. This is THE concept.’ It’s just a
concept, it’s just an idea. It’s about believing in the
infinity. If you believe in infinity then you have to
believe in nothingness. Right? Because those are the
dynamics. ... So we look at our world, and our
experiences from a conscious mind say that there is no
such thing as nothingness. Yet we still have this ability
to try and grasp the concept of infinity. Our minds are
trying to expand huge enough to say there are no
limits, there are no borders. We can just keep going,
and going, and going. Not realizing that everything
that we look at in nature has a boundary. So if there’s
an infinity then there is a nothingness. There has to be
that nothingness. And it’s really hard for people, and
myself included, to really grasp all that nothingness.
It doesn’t work you know? ... But nothingness in art
is different though. Because art always appropriates
words, and takes words-

C: It's another form of communication. You're
putting down your feelings, your emotions, your
ideas, in a different form other than words. And
that's what we've come to understand art as. So to
think that you're putting this stuff down without
actually having anything to say is ludicrous to a lot
of people. ...

J: Good art, in theory, should always express the
feelings of the artist.

C: Ideally.

J: Well that’s the right of the viewer to - It’s the
right of the viewer to be able to read what they
want to read -

C: To bring whatever they bring to it.

J: But it’s also the responsibility of the viewer to
understand what the artist was trying to say.

C: The dialogue.

J: And it’s not all up to the artist to make it
blatantly clear.

C: No. Because that usually results in [inferior]
art.

asking people to try and not read something into
it, but absorb it even on a more emotional level,
they still couldn’t do it because they were put into
a situation that was very - that was analytical; the
critique situation. So of course they're trying to
rationalize it along with everything else. And it
was too - it was too tough to do. You know. But
that’s the whole thing about exercise. It’s to, it’s to

C: Now was it so much that they... couldn’t look at
it without discussing the fact that it didn’t mean
something? Or was it that they were finding other
meanings there that weren't there? Or was it that
there was no content was the meaning?

J: No, a little bit of all of that. Some people would
look at the work and they would see an image in it,
they would see stuff in it that I hadn’t put there.

C: But that’s pretty typical. Every single critique
involves some sort of person going ‘oh this remind
me of the time that [this happened] or ‘this reminds
me of this.’

to. think that you're putting 1
ally haying anyt
ludicrous to a lot of people.

without actu

J: And that’s all fine and dandy, but that’s not what I
asked you to do. And that’s where they failed as far as
an exercise. ... [My piece] was wood, it was concrete,
you know it’s not - not try and find the social
content in it... put that on the side for a while. We
can talk about that afterwards because every -
because the fact that I presented it to them it’s going
to mean something, it’s going to change their world.
Every experience we have is going to change who
you are right? Good bad or anywhere in between.
But just to have that little exercise where you don't

this stuff down
ning to say is

look at stuff and try and analyze it [or] put it into a
box and conceptualize it, and just experience [it]. ...

J: Usually does. Unchallenging. ... But it is up
to the viewer to respect the artist. And what I

found when I was doing it was that by even
C: So What are some of the things people would

argue with you about? What did you ask them and
how did they react?

J: ... I asked them to look at it and not read
meaning into it. And some of them got actually
quite upset. Because they [thought] I didn’t have
the right to tell people how to view my work. And
I think any creator anywhere- ...But it’s not so hard

J: Ids really hard to sit down and just all of a sudden
approach a topic like this .. because its all about
philosophy and concepts, and virtual things. It not
about ‘this isthe way. This is THE concept’ It’s just a
‘concept, its just an idea. Its about believing in the
infinity. If you believe in infinity then you have to
believe in nothingness. Right? Because those are the
dynamics. ... So we look at our world, and our
experiences from a conscious mind say that there is no
such thing as nothingness. Ye we still have this ability
to try and grasp the concept of infinity. Our minds are
tuying to expand huge enough to say there are no
ts, there are no borders. We can just keep going,
and going, and going. Not realizing that everything
that we look at in nature has a boundary. So if theres
an infinity then there isa nothingness. There has to be
that nothingness. And ie really hard for people, and
myself included, to really grasp all that nothingness.
I doesn't work you know? ... But nothingness in art
is different though. Because art always appropriates
‘words, and takes words-

CC: Its another form of communication, You're
putting down your feelings, your emotions, your
ideas, in a different form other than words. And
that's what we've come to understand art as. So to
think that you're putting this stuff down without
actually having anything to say is ludicrous to a lot

of people.

J: Good art, in theory, should always express the
feelings of the artist

C: Ideally.
J Wall chat’s che right of the viewer to - Its the
right of the viewer to be able to read what they
want to read -

(C:'To bring whatever they bring to it

J: But it also the responsibility of the viewer to
understand what the artist was trying to say.

C: The dialogue.

J: And ies not all up to the artist to make i
blatantly clear.

C: No, Because that usually results in (inferior)

J: Usually does. Unchallenging. .. But itis up
to the viewer to respect the artist. And what I
found when I was doing ie was that by even

asking people to try and not read something into
it, but absorb it even on a more emotional level,
they still couldn’ doit because they were put into
a situation that was very - that was analytical; the
critique situation. So of course they're trying to
rationalize it along with everything else. And it
was t00 - it was too tough to do. You know. But
thats the whole ching about exercise. Its t, its to

(C: Now was it so much that they... couldn't look at
ic without discussing the fact that it didnt mean
something? Or was it that they were finding other
‘meanings there that werent there? Or was it that
‘there was no content was the meaning?

J: No, a little bit of all ofthat. Some people would
look at the work and they would see an image i
they would see stuff in it chat I hadnt put there.

CC: Bur that’s pretty typical. Every single critique
involves some sort of person going ‘oh this remind
ime of the time that [this happened)’ or this reminds
ime of this?”

to, think == put = BEES this stuff down
thing to say is
ludicrous to a ee of peop ONES,

without aca

J: And that’ all fine and dandy, bue that’ not what I
asked you to do. And thats where they fled as far as
an exercise... [My piece] was wood, it was concrete,
you know it’s not - not try and find the social
Content in ic... put that on the side for a while, We
‘aan talk about that afterwards because every -
because the fact that I presented it to them it’s going
co mean something, its going to change their world.
Every experience we have is going to change who
you are right? Good bad or anywhere in berween.
Bu just to have that litte exercise where you don't
look at stuff and try and analyze it for] put it into a
box and conceptualize it, and just experience (it). u«

C: So What are some of the things people would
argue with you about? What did you ask them and
how did they react?

J: m L asked chem to look at it and not read
‘meaning into it. And some of them got actually
quite upset. Because they {though I didn't have
the right o tell people how to view my work. And
T chink any creator anywhere- ..Butits not so hard

i