Flower 2, exposed screen, 2000 previous page: Arsewoman in Wonderland, screen and paste, 2000 once | had. | like the idea, or challenge, or absurdity of taking these two different types of languages and push- ing them together. MC: Which two different types of language? FB: The very abstract language of sex, performed for camera, and yet | should add actually happening physi- cally, and that of account and that of plain, non- euphemistic, verbal description. The text isn't edited; there is little verbal use of metaphor. MC: What | associated with what you were saying about primal/prewords is like the stage in childhood where you want to say something but you don't know how to do it with words. | remember hav- ing conversations with myself because | was unable to use words to bring anyone else in on the conversation. But I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about. FB: Sort of, | wasn't being that literal. Some stuff just isn't of verbal language. It may come down to it in the end. | mean look at us now! Stuff gets discussed. Words is the medium. | think a lot them very seductive and also appalling, | was born in 66, when | saw them later | thought the same. | am interested in those images. MC: There's something earlier you had said about the impossibility of images. The seductive power and the absurdity you talk about in THE NAM. FB: | was thinking about things that exist but seem impossible, | think it's about what can be contained by description. Like the way that those magnum images are so seductive, yet they are pictures of peo- ple literally dying. Hollywood had used something similar to this, Vietnam Films are not entertainment really, they are active elements of ideological dis- course. They are also mainstream, popular etc. MC: | can see what you mean by porno- graphic images being seductive and yet appalling, but I'm still not sure by what pornography is to you. FB: nor am I, I'm not sure of my relation- about this. In fact that's why | | call it the ship to it. That was started making these accounts blow by blow job the starting point for in the first place. Everyone the work, same as describes art all the time, talk- account. THE NAM... in gen- ing, critiquing, photographing, | thought | would do it for them, you know, describe the whole bloody thing for them, so the art was the description of the art - though it also describes other things too. | started doing this when | was at college, all people did was sit around and talk, it was very circular, | would zone out most of the time, all | could see was a big fat fullstop. Words became kindov abstract for me, but it wasn't boring full- stop, actually it took me somewhere kind of groovie. MC: | think when your talking about the complicated and the emotive your dealing with communication that has yet to be developed in the way we communicate with words, which people also don’t do very well. What type of language is developed when these two types of languages are pushed together? FB: | call it the blow by blow job account. MC: You like porn. But you'd say that porn exists before sex. What other sorts of porn do you enjoy or find inter- esting? Do you think THE NAM is pornographic. I'm not necessarily trying to get smutty on you. FB: No, not before sex! Sex is the first thing. | don't watch much porn really, but | like that | can not be dispassionate about it. Do you watch much porn, not trying to get smutty or anything .... MC: The first pornographic image you saw? FB: Well the first pornographic images | saw were from Vietnam, they were Magnum war photographs and they were very influential politically, but at the time | found eral | think people have an unclear rela- tionship to pornogra- phy, | mean people get all hot and opin- ionated about it. | am always interested in things, which have a kind of allure, or have seductive power and are difficult. Porn is taboo. Sex is taboo — it makes the world go around. Do you always work from a position of knowing? MC: Yes. Way too much, I'm trying not to think at all. Knowing is a good word. I'm trying to work from a position of knowing from my gut and not from logic. That's what's so interesting about your work. It is clear what it's about but not what its saying. FB: ha should we end here then..... MC: | think so. | think I've reached the end of my rope. was xxxx there are no girls in THE NAM (except dead ones), there is no nudity (except dead ones). Flower 2, exposed screen, 2000, previous page: Arsewoman in Wonderland, screen and paste, 2000 once | had. | lke the idea, or challenge, or absurdity of taking these two different types of languages and push- ing them together. MC: Which two different types of language? FB: The very abstract language of sex, performed for ‘camera, and yet | should add actually happening physi- cally, and that of account and that of plain, non- ‘euphemistic, verbal description. The text isn't edited; there is little verbal use of metaphor. MC: What | associated with what you were saying about primal/prewords is like the stage in childhood where you want to say something but you don't know how to do it with: words. | remember hav- ing conversations with myself because | was unable to use words to bring anyone else in on the conversation. But I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about. FB: Sort of, | wasn't being that literal. Some stuff just isn't of verbal language. It may come down to it in the end. | mean look at us now! Stuff gets discussed. Words is the medium. | think a lot them very seductive and also appalling, | was born in 66, when | saw them later | thought the same. | am. interested in those images. MC: There's something earlier you had said about the impossibility of images. The seductive power and the absurdity you talk about in THE NAM. FB: | was thinking about things that exist but seem impossible, | think it's about what can be contained by description. Like the way that those magnum images are so seductive, yet they are pictures of peo- ple literally dying. Hollywood had used something, similar to this, Vietnam Films are not entertainment really, they are active elements of ideological dis- course. They are also ‘mainstream, popular etc. MC: | can see what. you mean by pomo- ‘graphic images being seductive and yet appalling, but I'm still not sure by what pornography is to you. FB: nor am |, I'm not sure of my relation- about this. In fact that’s why 1 I call it the ship to it. That was started making these accounts blow by blow job the starting point for in the first place. Everyone the work, same as describes art all the time, talk- account. THE NAM... in gen- ing, critiquing, photographing, I thought 1 would do it for them, you know, describe the whole bloody thing for them, so the art was the description of the art - though it also describes other things too. | started doing this when | was at college, all people did was sit around and talk, it was very Circular, | would zone out most of the time, all | could see was a big fat fullstop. Words became kindov abstract for me, but it wasn't boring full- stop, actually it took me somewhere kind of groovie. ‘MC: | think when your talking about the complicated and the emotive your dealing with communication that has yet to be developed in the way we communicate with words, which people also don’t do very well. What type of language is developed when these two types of languages are pushed together? FB: | call it the blow by blow job account. MC: You like porn. But you'd say that porn exists before sex. What other sorts of porn do you enjoy or find inter- esting? Do you think THE NAM is pornographic. I'm not necessarily trying to get smutty on you. FB: No, not before sex! Sex is the first thing. I don't watch much porn really, but | like that | can not be dispassionate about it. Do you watch much porn, rot trying to get smutty or anything MC: The first pornographic image you saw? FB: Well the first pornographic images | saw were from Vietnam, they were Magnum war photographs and they were very influential politically, but at the time | found eral | think people have an unclear rela- tionship to pornogra- phy, | mean people get all hot and opin- ionated about it. | am always interested in things, which have a kind of allure, or have seductive power and are difficult. Porn is taboo. Sex is taboo ~ it makes the world go around. Do you always work. from a position of knowing? ‘MG: Yes. Way too much, I'm trying not to think at all. Knowing is a good word. I'm trying to work from a position of knowing from my gut and not from logic. That's what's so interesting about your work. It is clear what it's about but not what its saying FB: ha should we end here then. MC: | think so. | think I've reached the end of my rope. 200xx there are no girls in THE NAM (except dead ones), there is no nudity (except dead ones). 13_@)