Volume I Number 16 ee ee eee the interview The following is a transcription of the interview that took place Wednesday April 19th, involving Steve Harri- son, Gordon Moore, Joshua Berson, and Colin Fenbyt Gordon Could you tell us a bit about what Design Research Moore offers a student and does it have a method of educa- tion? Steve Yes, it’s a pretty complex question. We're essentially Harrison a very small school, and traditionally what my pro- gramme would be called is Industrial Design. Tradi- tionally Industrial Design has always aligned itself with large consumer goods industries, i.e. designing lawn mowers, cars, etc. — more mass-produced products. The problem of design serving big business rather than solving local problems is also an issue for graphic designers. 1, for one, am totally uncomfortable designing for big business. | don’t particularly want to churn out more shit! So it gets back to the question of, what are we going to do? Since it's a small school, what are the priorities for Industrial Design? We have a different economic system in Canada. We have very little manufacturing and what little we have is con- trolled outside of this country. Every politician is pro-Canadian, advocating more local production, Broadbent especially. We want to produce in smaller units, less mass-produced items, more meaningful work situations where people are assaulting social problems and trying to create a Canadian identity. But we feel the entire thing has to be taken into consideration. Traditional schools emphasize design for an already-established industry. It’s a big problem. 99% of every idea you come up with you have to abandon in this country. GM How much is that sort of approach is a matter of finding ways for students to survive in the social and political structures of today? SH | say our approach is the most job-oriented. Colleges always argue their system best prepares their student for the market-place. But what they are doing, in fact, is training 60-70 people every year with the same basic skills. All competing with each other. So unless you are exceptional, you are out of luck. | want all my students to have an ability to do something that nobody else can, it is the only way to ensure the system will pay them. | got my present position by approaching the job market this way. Instead of the traditional graduating course of Interior Design normally following Furniture Design, | studied the application of plastics. This was in 1966-67 and | had to fight tooth and nail with the principal who consi- dered plastics cheap and nasty. | came to Canada a couple of years later and replied to an advertisement from this institution for a Design Instructor with a knowledge of plastics. | was the only person they could choose. Even my old school now is considered a plastics school, graduating dozens of students with this specializatidn. So today my chances of getting this same job would be minimal. | try to follow this philosophy within my own programme. My students are encouraged to dévelop a specialization requiring individual instruction, tools and budgets. |! want to turn this place into a research facility like a university. This is a major 4-year bloody institute in this god damn province — it should bloody behave like it!!! GM There seems to be parallel development in terms of individualized projects in Alternate Studies. There is a strong tendency towards this approach now-a-days. SH Yes, | agree, but we include much of the traditional technical curriculum as backup. People seem to polarize it into two categories — you are either a ‘learner by doer’ or a thinker’. GM I'd like to pursue a couple of questions first. How many students are in the Design Research programme at the moment? SH | only have 4 students. GM Four. Are there any students who are going to gra- duate this year? SH One. GM What are students qualified to do when they graduate? SH In a small school with flexibility of curriculum we are not tied to any specific end results. In a small country where you can only probably employ one computer specialist in the furniture industry we should be able to train that one. GM What is exemplary about the Design Research pro- gramme in its relation to the goals of the school as a whole? SH The issue is that the design element of the school has always played footsie with the ‘Fine Art’ thinking — they'll flip-flop around but I've always stated quite clearly that there is obviously a radical philosophical difference between art and design. We are sending people out there whether you like it or not to work within the system — that is our goal. Fine Art goals are different. GM Can there be a common philosophy established for art and design? SH No. Unless the philosophy is to have no common philosophy. We have a school run by painters. We've had a first year programme run by you-know-who and our enrollment is dropping. You have a name like Emily Carr College of Art — you fucking well wonder there aren't any Design students. GM What input do students have in the development of design theory in the sch .'? NOTHING Colin Fenby’s postimpression of the interview with Steve Harrison SH GM SH GM SH GM SH GM SH Well, after what | hope will be a much improved tirst and second year programme next year that will involve more basic instruction — after that it is up to the individual student to specialize in any area he/she wishes as long as it fits with the basic philosophy of the programme. But it is nowhere near the scale of the course at Ryer- son Polytechnical Institute in Toronto. Well, they have a much bigger faculty. We only have two instructors. We aim to be known for doing one thing well, i.e. Industrial Design serving small business. When students don’t have the resources, they really can’t work on the scale or proportions that a lot of the larger schools can. A lot of people essentially promise you the world. Well it’s bullshit. We only cover design within our own parameters. Right now we can only do one thing well. What is the budget for Design Research? It's the same as other departments. But our supplies are less, | guess, because we have fewer students. In terms of our capital equipment our area is expensive. But much of this equipment is shared with other areas. Maybe the accounting system should be changed. Basically what would you think of a proposal stating that the programme should be budgeted according to student demand? If such a proposal were instigated right now, Design Research would obviously be canned. | would be forced to go to the province and say: Who the hell is responsible for Design education? | could argue that this was one programme trying to solve some of our manufacturing problems. Now it is getting wiped out by a narrow-minded, essentially fine art philosophy. Nobody is attacking the quality of it. As far as | am concerned that is my responsibility. If there are no students coming into the programme the people re- sponsible for running the school should be held accountable. Joshua Berson SH GM SH CF SH CF SH CF SH JB SH JB April 27. 1979 ava How do you personally justify that this department has four students receiving this large allocation of space? What space? It’s only one lousy basement room. Next year because of the reorganization of curriculum, this space will have to handle more first year courses and the second-year cross over courses. Within this reorganization I’m fighting almost single-handedly for developing the concept of being a design foundation course, so a tiny 4-year course doesn’t waste what | consider a whole year. If | have anything to do with it the programme will be a pure basic Foundation course. How far is this developed? It should be implemented next year. | feel it would be a good thing for the students if there was a clear separation between art foundation and design founda- tion. Is there much of a significant difference between the accumulation and interpretation of information between Design Research for example and Alterna- tive Studies? Should there be a cross over taking place here? | think a design programme should be part of a fine arts institution for this reason; to provide fine arts students with many types of professional information. A question that came up in Colin’s original article was would it be possible for animation or graphic design students to use any unused studio space. They can right now as long as they don’t interfere with Design Research students. Everyone complains about space. But there seems to be such an appalling difference with the animation students right next door and here there is so much open space. We need big boards because we are industrial designers. You can’t run the school like a little rat cage where everyone turns on each other instead of the people responsible. Now if you are arguing that there isn’t adequate space for your animation programme, | totally agree. But is that my responsibility? I'm saying that it is unfair allocation. Then what is your minimum requirement for a school? Where do you stop? Why isn’t the administration providing animation with the quality of space it requires? Has animation asked for it? | understand they have made quite a few noises. | can’t speak for them. Neither can I. Well | wonder, how it is that you have all this wonder- ful space — have you asked for it? This is not a wonderful space. atrocious space. But even then, even if it is atrocious space, it is not being used. Oh sure it is being used. Do you want to check Graphic Design? What day is it today? Sure, there are about 10 people upstairs. But you go past there time and time again and a lot of the rooms are empty. You could argue that those rooms are much better for animation. It’s a futile argument. It’s obvious — it’s too simplistic an argu- ment. Well, almost every department has those problems. How would you like it if someone throws you off your drawing board. I’m saying that if the school cannot provide x amount of instruction, x amount of facilities, and x amount of space for a student to work, it should get out of the bloody business. I'm not trying to blame you for the inadequate space. I'm just saying that somewhere there seems to be... Graphic. Design has no 4th year students this year. That entire 4th year room can be turned over to animation on that argument. Well, it’s being used by the 3rd year students in Graphic Design and also quite a few second year students. But | am not going to argue for Graphic Design. I’m just saying that there are so many bloody departments that have inadequate facilities; you can look at photography. This may sound a little off the wall, but do you foresee any major ‘differences once the school moves to the Granville Island facility? Hardly any difference at all. | think you and Colin have a valid point. The whole school is.crammed for space yet there has been this whole hoo-ha that once we move to Granville Island the Messiah will come and BANG — we'll all have enough space and flourish in this institution we've all been wanting and waiting to be. Will this change really alleviate the space problems? It will alleviate some of the space problems but do nothing to change the basic problem of attitudes. You talk about attitude. It seems there exists a fundamental difference in attitudes in terms of recog- nition of economic and political development. But you have to eat on a 24 hour basis. You have to put food in your mouth with a minimum amount of conflict with your ideals or whatever you call your own discipline. So this is like the winding down, the grinding down of the great liberal-democratic developments of the 17th I’m saying it’s an continued on page two Published by Student Services Emily Carr College of Art 249 Dunsmuir Street Vancouver V6B 1X2 ~ Volume I_Number 16 RR the interview L The following isa transcription of the interview that took place Wednesday April 19th, involving Steve Hari son, Gordon Moore, Joshua Berson, an Gordon Moore steve Harczon om sH om sH om sH om be aH cM SH om sH a) sH om Colin Fenbyt Could you tel usa bit about what Detign Research foffers a student and doet it have 8 method of educe tion? ‘Yes, i's prety complex question. We're essentialy ‘gramme would be called is Industrial Dsign. Tro tionally Industri! 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