by Teri Snelgrove n the fall of 1996, a group of gay, lesbian and bisexual ECIAD students got togeth- er to mount a show in the Concourse Gallery. The following has been tran- scribed from a conversation between Constanza Silva and Teri Snelgrove who were both part of the initial discussion as the group searched for an appropriate theme. The following conversation does not necessarily reflect the opinion of all QUEER SHOW participants. Teri: When we first started talking about the show in terms of theme, you sug- gested that we pose the question; Is there a queer aesthetic? | remember that you contextualized this question in terms of political movements, and the impact that such movements had on art (and vice versa). Does that ring any dingy dingys? Constanza: Yeah. | think what | was think- ing about then was the fact that politi- cal movements are organic. They move, and the concerns that people in any movement have are always in a state of flux and changing. | think it was important to define ourselves as queer because not only did we live that way, it’s about our lives. But we were invisi- ble. We've been the outcasts, the mar- ginalized in other communities we belong to. T: Are you talking about the fact that oppressed communities frequently employ the tools of the oppressor in an effort to reclaim a sense of pride, a sense of identity and a sense of community - an appropriation or “reappropriation” of sorts. C: The reclaiming is part of it, and so is the demystifying (and challenging) of assumptions that are taken to be the broad social norm. For example, hetero- sexuality is considered a norm. The assumption is that your partner is of the opposite sex. T: So, in fact the use of the term queer becomes a way to identify, in that it dis- tinguishes us as group of people for whom traditional terminology and assumptions don’t apply. Cc: Yes. T: Let’s get to the question. Do you think there’s a queer aesthetic? C: I'd have to say yes and no.. T: On the yes side, how does such an aes- thetic define itself or define us. How does it manifest itself? C: We manifest it and we are manifested by it. There are certain ways in which queers as a diverse group come to understand certain symbols, ideas, expressions. So, when we make decisions about using certain symbols or signs that will be read in a certain way, we are relying, in a sense, on a shared cultural familiarity. (Which is not to say that it will be read by all queers in the same way.) But there’s an assumption and understanding that it will be read as queer. T: I think those symbols, such as the freedom flag on my car or the labrys in my ear are important to me. They identi- fy me within a community. Some of my work, is clearly queer in terms of the signs and symbols it uses. For the Concourse show, | made Jello Cunts. I’m pretty sure that in any other context the piece would have been read as queer... Although now that | think of it, the only thing that’s probably clear about it is that it was made by a woman... Hmmm... C: That raises a very important question: how important is the maker to the work? It’s critically important in my mind. The maker forms part of the social context in which the work is made. For example, when Robert Mapplethorpe photographs explicit images of gay men engaged in sexual acts, it's important to me to note that he’s a gay man. Furthermore, he was working in a time when AIDS had a huge j Identities The Point ts Clear the parts that | am: a woman, a Newfoundlander, a lesbian, middle class, an adult child of an alcoholic, 35 years old. etc. I'm a Virgo Rat and that’s that. | ultimately think that whether or not there's a queer aesthetic is irrelevant. Banding together for a show like this is I don’t believe in an essential politic. | don’t believe there's any kind of purity. Authenticity is my death. It’s often used to invalidate one’s work. impact on the gay community in terms of strides that had been made with regard to expression of sexuality. | agree with your opinion. So, how important do you think the maker is to the work? The fact that Mapplethorpe made the images he did, had very much to do with the political context surrounding our lives. That's true for a lot of us whether we believe it’s a part of our work or not. This is not to say that I think that people who aren't gay can’t photograph homo- sexuals, because to me there is no single or visible homosexual aesthetic. There is no authentic homosexual. | don’t believe in an essential politic. | don’t believe there’s any kind of purity. Authenticity is my death. It’s often used to invalidate one’s work. | think any kind of essentialism is com- pletely destructive. It's divisive and more about dividing people than bringing them together. | don’t mean to sound like a small “I” liberal here, but essential- ism is dangerous. We're all on this planet together and we've got to find a way to work it out. The only other choice we have is to kill each other and hey, that’s not a solution. Or kill ourselves because we're hybrids and we can't be essential. Our concerns are always different, and changing, that’s what I've learned now, and that’s what makes me tolerant... Not just tolerant, but appreciative of differ- ent possibilities, whether | agree with them or not. Our differences makes me inquisitive about all the ways that people approach work. There are times that | don’t want to think about queer, because | don’t want an intellectual process to guide my work, when | want to work more intuitively or from the heart. If the art comes from the heart it will be the political. Now, Teri, would “queer” come out intuitively in your work? Constanza, | think my work is the sum of all my parts and will be informed by all more about creating a space which is as close to safe as possible. And in this space, some people share some ideas and depart on others. So to me whether or not we all share the same aesthetic means nothing. Nor does it mean any- thing that our aesthetics all come from different places. Rather, shows such as the Queer show create a sense of com- munity, and | think that communities make social change possible. I think you've said it there. To reiterate a major point, it is a community that we're a part of, and one of many communities. Because we are coming from a lot of dif- ferent places, our sense of community may involve other groups or places that don’t connect all the time. So, it becomes really complex. An aesthetic can validate some of our concerns, but one aesthetic cannot describe the complexity of all of our concerns, nor would | want it to. But it’s fun to play and appeal to our com- munities. | saw some work by a lesbian artist and although there were many ways of reading it, it came from an expe- rience | shared. So, for me it had a certain energy, power and appeal. You're talking about the sense of delight Oppression (1995) Robert Hong March 1997 / Planet of the Arts 41 when you can find yourself in someone else’s work. For example, Suzo Hickey had a show recently, Let Me Go Down in the Mud, at grunt gallery which dealt with issues of being a lesbian and a mother. In the program notes, Susan Stewart talked about that energy, power and sense of relief when she was able to place herself at the centre of Suzo’s work. So, whether or not Suzo was paint- ing in a style that could be labelled queer, her work came from her experi- ence which is shared by many other lesbian moms out there. cS | can’t find myself, nor can | find the artist in a lot of the Modernist work from the canon. | don’t know if it’s the time period or what. T:| don’t even think it’s a time period thing. Because | look at most of the work from the Renaissance, and quite frankly | want to scream. © Although it is hard to tell from slides or badly reproduced pictures... The thing is this; all the groups who have been marginalized, who have taken risks in challenging what has been considered the norm, are freeing artists from our own constraints in terms of identity and so forth. T:A lot of marginalized artists have created work that has helped to destabilize the centre... Back to the central issue, | think that while there isn’t any central queer aesthetic, there are trends in art, the same way there are trends in any other medium. Yes | agree. We're probably having this conversation as though the two of us are talking, but we don’t even have our own ideas in this conversation and we're talking as if we do. Yes | agree with you. | think we have to thank everyone who’s gone before us for coming up with these ideas in the first place! Well, not everyone... | guess the question is do we want a queer aesthetic? Do we even want it? | don’t think | do, even though | like being in those places where there’s some kind of shared experience or cultural familiari- ty. But we have our liberation now. We don’t need an aesthetic anymore. We're all free! : Yes, | do agree that I don’t want some homogeneous, and no doubt boring, kind of binding factor bringing us all together in the form of an aesthetic. Because as long as we have nothing to rub against, we all go unchallenged. Maybe the question should be what is not a queer aesthetic. Stay tuned for our upcoming radio show, FACTS and FURIES. =@. (WW Identities March 1997 / Planet of the Arts 41 The Points Clear by Teri Snelgrove 1 the fall of 1996, a group of gay, lesbian ‘and bisexual ECIAD students got togeth- ‘er to mount a show in the Concourse Gallery. The following has been tran scribed from a conversation between Constanza Siva and Tei Snelgrove who ‘were both part ofthe initial discussion as ‘the group searched for an appropriate ‘theme. The following conversation does not rnecesarily reflect the opinion of all QUEER ‘SHOW participants. ‘Teri: When we fist started talking about ‘the show in terms of theme, ou sug gested that we pose the question; I there a queer aesthetic? lremember that you contextualized this question in terms of politcal movements, and the impact that such movements had fn art (and vice vers). Does that ring any dingy dingys? Constanza: Yeah think what | was think: ing about then was the fact tha pol cal movements are organic. They move, land the concerns that people in any ‘movement have are always ina state of flux and changing. Ithink it was Important to define ourselves as queer because not only did we live that way, its about our lives. But we were invis- ble. We've been the outcasts, the mar- ginalzed in other communities we belong to. TE Are you talking about the fact that ‘oppressed communities frequent employ the tools of the oppressor in an feffort to reclaim a sense of pride, a sense of identity and a sense of community - ‘an appropriation or “reappropriation” of The recaiming is part of it, and so isthe demystifying (and challenging) of assumptions that are taken to be the ‘broad socal norm. For example, heter Sexuality i considered a norm. The assumption is that your partner is ofthe ‘opposite sex. To, in fact the use of the term queer becomes a way to identity, in that it dis- tinguishes us a group of people for whom traditional terminology and assumptions don't apply. © Yes Let's get to the question. Do you think there's a queer aesthetic? Gd have to say yes and no. On the yes side, how does such an aes thetic define itself or define us. How does it manifest itself? ‘GWe manifest it and we are manifested by it. There are certain ways in which queers {5a diverse group come to understand Certain symbols, ideas, expressions. So, ‘when we make decisions about using Certain symbols or signs that wil be read lina certain way, we are relying, in 2 Sense, ona shared cultural familiarity. (Which is not to say that twill be read by ll queers in the same way) But there's an assumption and understanding that it wil be read as queer. [think those symbol, such asthe freedom flag on my éar or the labrys in my ear are important to me. They ident fy me within a community. Some of my work, is clearly queer in terms of the Signs and symbols it uses. For the Concourse show, | made Jello Cunts. 'm pretty sure that in any other context the piece would have been read as queer. Although now that I think oft, the only thing that’s probably clear about i i: ‘that it was made by a woman. Hmmm. [C That raises a very important question: how important isthe maker to the work? TE Its citically important in my mind. The maker forms part of the social context in ‘hich the work is made. For example, when Robert Mapplethorpe photographs ‘explicit images of gay men engaged in sexual acts, it's important to me to note ‘that he's a gay man. Furthermore, he was working in atime when AIDS had a huge the parts that !am: a woman, 2 Newfoundlander,a lesbian, middle class, an adult child of an alcoholic 35 years old et. rm a Virgo Rat and that’s that. | ultimately think that whether or not ‘there's a queer aesthetic is irrelevant. Banding together for a show lke this is 1 don’t believe in an essential politic. | don’t believe there's any kind of purity. Authenticity is my death. It’s often used to invalidate one’s work. impact on the gay community in tems of strides that had been made with regard 10 expression of sexuality © agree with your opinion So, how important do you think the maker sto the work? (C The fact that Mapplethorpe made the Jmages he did, had very much to do with the political context surrounding our lives. That's true fora lot of us whether we believe it's a part of our work or not ‘This isnot to say that | think that people who aren't gay can't photograph homo- ‘Sexuals, because to me there in single ‘or isibie homosexual aesthetic. There i ‘no authentic homosexual. I don't believe in an essential politic I don't believe there's any kind of purity. Authenticiy is my death. I's often used to invalidate ‘one's work | think any kind of essentialism is com pletely destructive. i's divisive and more about dividing people than bringing them together. don't mean to sound @ a small I" liberal here, but essential- sm is dangerous. We'te al on this planet together and we've got to find a way to work i out. The only other choice we have isto kill each other and hey, that’s nota solution C Orkull ourselves because we're hybrids ‘and we can't be essential laughter Our concerns are always different, and changing, that's what "ve learned now, land that's what makes me tolerant. Not Just tolerant, but appreciative of differ- ent possiblities, whether | agree with them or not. Our differences makes me Inquisitive about all the ways that people approach work. There are times that | don't want to think about queer, because don't want an intellectual proces to uide my work, when I want to work ‘more intuitively or from the heart. f the {art comes from the heart it willbe the political Now, Ter, would "queer" come ‘ut intuitively in your work? E_ Constanza, ! think my work isthe sum of all my parts and wil be informed by all ‘more about creating a space whichis as lose to safe a5 posible And inthis. Space, some people share some ideas and. ‘depart on others. So to me whether of not we all share the same aesthetic ‘means nothing. Nor does ®t mean any- ‘thing that our aesthetics all come from different places. Rather, shows such a5 the Queer show create a sense of com: ‘munity, and I think that communities ‘make Socal change possible. 1 think you've sad it there. To reiterate a ‘major point, itis a community that we're 4 part of, and one of many communities Because we are coming from a lot of di ferent places, our sense of community ‘may involve other groups or places that don't connect al the time. So, itbecomes really complex. An aesthetic can validate some of our concerns, but one aesthetic Cannot describe the complexity of al of ‘ur concerns, nor would I want it to. But its fun to play and appeal to our com- ‘nities. saw some work by lesbian ants and although there were many ‘ways of reading it it came from an expe: Fience I shared. So, for me it had a certain energy, power and appeal ‘You're talking about the sense of delight when you can find yourself in someone ese’ work. For example, uzo Hickey had a show recently, Let Me Go Down in ‘the Mud, at grunt gallery which dealt with issues of being a lesbian and a ‘mother Inthe program notes, Susan Stewart talked about that energy, power and sense of relief when she was able to place herself at the centre of Suzo's ‘work, 50, whether or not Suzo was paint ing ina style that could be labelled ‘queer, her work came from her experi- fence which i shared by many other lesbian moms out there. © __Leantt find myself, nor can I find the artist in alot of the Modernist work from the canon. | don’t know if’ the ‘time period or what. TH don't even think its atime period thing. Because I look at most ofthe work from the Renaissance, and quite frankly | © Although it shard to tell fom slides or badly reproduced pictures. The thing is this all the groups who have ‘been marginalized, who have taken risks in challenging what has been considered the norm, ae freeing artists from our ‘own constraints in terms of identity and 50 forth TA lot of marginalized artists have created ‘work that has helped to destabilize the entre... Back to the central issue, | think that while there isnt any central queer ‘esthetic, there are trends in art, the Same way there are trends in any other medium, Yes! agree. We're probably having this Conversation 2 though the two of us are talking, but we dont even have our own ideas inthis conversation and we're talking as if we do. TE Yes1 agree with you. | think we have to thank everyone who's gone before us for coming up with these ideas inthe first place! Well not everyone. I guess the question is do we want a queer aesthetic? Do we even want it? {don't think | do, even though | like being in those places where there's some kind of shared experience or cultural familiar: ty. But we have our liberation now. We don't need an aesthetic anymore, We're all free! T_ Yes, Ido agree that | don't want some homogeneous, and no doubt boring, kind of binding factor bringing us all ‘together in the form of an aesthetic Because as long as we have nothing to rub against, we all go unchallenged, ‘C Maybe the question should be what is nota queer aesthetic Stay tuned for our upcoming radio show, FACTS and FURIES.