Volume 1 Number 13

“|. .Think of this, too: while you are hanging back, they
never hesitate; while you stay at home, they are always
abroad; for they think that the farther they go the more
they will get, while you think that any movement may
endanger what you have already. If they win a victory,
they follow it up at once, and if they suffer a defeat,
they scarcely fall back at all. As for their bodies, they
regard them as expendable for their city’s sake, as though
‘they were not their own; but each man cultivates his own
intelligence, again with a view to doing something notable
for his city. If they atm at something and do not get it,
they think that they have been deprived of what belonged
to them already; whereas, if their enterprise is successful,
they regard that success as nothing compared to what
they will do next. Suppose they fail in some undertaking;
they make good the loss immediately by setting their
hopes in some other direction. Of them alone it may be
said that they possess a thing almost as soon as they have
begun to desire it, so quickly with them does action follow
upon decision. And so they go on working in hardship and
danger all the days of their lives, seldom enjoying their
possessions because they are always adding to them. Their
view of a holiday is to do what needs doing; they prefer
hardship and activity to peace and quiet. In a word, they
are by nature incapable of either living a quiet life them-
selves or of allowing anyone else to do so.”

— from the Corinthian speech in the debate at Sparta,
Thucydides, The Peloponnesian War, Book 1, Chapter 6
(c. 415 B.C.)

By persistence on the part of certain individuals, no matter their
weariness and interest, the following interview with Neil Berecry
has been completed at last. By no means could any introduction
describe the person nor the work he accomplishes; in fact, the
intentions of the interview were to provide whatever possible
clarity about just these aspects. The question arises, why an
interview with this person out of the contemporary surroundings?
It was a belief on the part of the interviewers that perhaps what
we potentially had was a medium through which several pertinent
questions could be examined. The most notable shortcoming of
what follows is that there was not a full enough opportunity to
mention and connect other information and ideas. A main theme
underlying much that is alluded to concerns the paradoxes of pro-
gress, a subject we hope will receive further attention.

All this might at first sound pretentious. For one thing, why
bother to delve into such questions and with such an individual?
To this there are at least two answers. First, the interviewers

would be deeply delighted if many others would undertake any —

sort of comparable study of contemporary art and artists. Such an
inquiry if serious would surely be a step forward in interrelation,
not backward. Secondly, 20th century living imposes this responsi-
bility upon us: it is simply a fact that modern conditions, whether
we like it or not, oblige us to achieve some apprehension of each
other’s assumptions. Isolationism is gone. We cannot claim that
the present interview satisfies these demands, and we hope that
where we have fallen short others will do better. Yet we have few
qualms about the validity of what has been attempted. We hope
that any such discussion will continue to occur in ‘X’ newsletter.
— Gordon Moore, Harry McIntyre

GORDON MOORE: Could you tell us what you are
doing now, either at the Vancouver Art Gallery or in your
own work?

NEIL BERECRY: I think there are a lot of similarities
in what I’m doing with the art gallery and my own work.
But I'll leave the discussion of my own work until later
and just for now talk about what I am doing at the gal-
lery (VAG). Do you want any details about the extension
program? Okay, very briefly the extension program at the
VAG takes “art,” most of it from the permanent collec-
tion of the gallery, some of it borrowed from artists, to
put together an exhibition — sometimes around a theme,
sometimes around an issue in contemporary art. The
exhibition is taken into the province to different towns
and presented to schools and community groups. It’s
not just dumped and left to the mercy of local insight or
prejudice. We, who work in extension, have an important
function in “animating,” bringing it to life, elucidating
as honestly and extensively as posible the artist’s concerns
— making it accessible. And this is one of the things that
I am particularly interested in, that accessibility. I would
think that a gallery has a responsibility to the community
to demystify the art process, and their relation to artists,
to make what they have accessible.

HARRY McINTYRE: That which mystifies also de-
mystifies the art process? That is a most peculiar notion.
What is it that the VAG has, what is it showing to people
out of town?

BERECRY: It is to a large extent a museum, an art
museum, where work refers to the past. There are many

' definitions of a museum. Museums can be either totally

concerned with the preservation and explanation of
cultural artifacts and debris or with the collection of
cultural commodities from the immediate past, i.e. the
“new” directions of contemporary art, or a combination
of both or a mix which includes being an informational
resource like a library, a catalyst and focus for contem-
porary art in the locality, a co-ordination point for
significant international touring exhibitions, a forum for
exploration of new forms and approaches, a verifier of
authenticity and excellence, a place for people to build
careers, a cog in the machinery which maintains dominant
ideologies, a place which maintains a necessary link with
arts past, a place where ‘‘art’’ can be made and where

Emily Carr College of Art

the
2
March 20, 1979

artists can work, etc. etc., or any combination of the
above in varying degrees of proficiency. They deal with
artifacts and related ideas.

McINTYRE: It tends to be a provincial attitude cen-
trally, really, all of a sudden in the outlying areas, the
Vancouver Art Gallery gives a propagandized version of
what art supposedly constitutes — the credibility thrives
on landscape scenes with nice snowflakes falling down.
So the gallery does a lot of saving the appearances while
making ‘‘great’”’ cultural notices?

BERECRY: I will say a bit about that. That is one of the
criticisms of the program and it is a criticism that comes
from people in Vancouver as well as from outlying centres.
They are sometimes suspicious of anything that comes
from the city, particularly Vancouver. They don’t want
to have people coming to their community saying this is
what contemporary art is. It is seen that the statement
is made simply by coming into a town and saying “We
are from Vancouver Art Gallery.’’ You are implying that

‘what you have brought is significant and that it is art.

We caii’t avoid this presumption, probably accurate, and
it is something we must work around if we are to honestly
represent (if possible) the artist’s concerns. An art gallery
or art museum to many people denotes prestige, accepta-
bility, a stamp of approval, a definition of excellence,
credibility — and that is why we as animateurs travel with
the work. We could simply send the work alone and that
would be limited, but we go with it as the idea is to
bridge the gap, to deal with the psychological objection
to the work and try to bring out the artist’s main concerns.
McINTYRE: In some ways I can see where this would
only further obscure and mystify. Surely as well, Neil, if
it is coming from the VAG bank it is probably not that
contemporary, I mean in attitudes towards art.
BERECRY: Okay. Our job is to extend the gallery
function. And the Gallery is in part a museum, so to
some extent we’re extending a museum function. And
we're taking work which has gone through all the changes
that an object goes through once it’s put into a museum,
into an institutional context, a context which clearly, I
think, reflects a certain position in the social hierarchy.
It identifies with a certain socio-political stance. Okay,
you can deal with that. You can take the work out and
talk about those issues to the people viewing. You
can say, look, we’ve brought out work that isn’t con-
temporary and is affected by its museum associations. I
think you can take out any work at all and deal with the
contemporary issues, even if it’s a historical work.

At the same time as dealing with techniques and the
art historical conditions of an artifact’s having been made,
one can also examine and discuss the differences and
similarities between the exhibited work and contemporary
artists, processes and concerns. And by an inductive
method relate both to a viewer’s own experiences — which
of course overcomes some initial hostility if it exists.
You see, this work we do is essentially a subversive
activity: the animateur is an agent of change. In some
ways a touring exhibition is like a travelling medicine
show. A trick, something for everyone, and being able to
let people enjoy being tricked out of their old preoccu-
pations with craft, skill and product while extending to
them the ideas surrounding artistic excellence, and the
enjoyment and excitement of new, previously unavail-
able, contemplative and philosophical experiences. We
do incidentally also take out quite contemporary ‘‘things.”’

The other thing that happens to an institutional

artifact has to do with the passage of time — the fact that
the art never remains constant. It’s always in a state of
decay once it leaves the artist. I feel quite differently
about the work I did last week than that which I’m work-
ing on now. In a museum we’re dealing with something
the artist has put behind or put aside, put out of their
lives, that’s how I feel about my things once I’ve stopped
working on them.
‘MOORE: So we’re still left with the political and com-
plex thing which occurs through the art gallery standing
behind artists in a historical sense, puffing up their im-
portance and obscuring a better understanding. At this
time anyway we are left knowing often that participating
in what the gallery presents, how these works are pre-
sented, may mean participating in mistaken collective
representatives.

BERECRY: That’s very difficult, and yes it’s true.
How an art gallery goes about purchasing, putting an
artist’s work in the permanent collection, or giving an
exhibition to a particular person is a difficult issue that
causes much resentment and misunderstanding but is a
reality we have to face and deal with because, if we are
lucky, we’re going to continue to have art galleries and
museums. [ think a lot of young artists are caught in
between wanting to totally ignore the galleries, the insti-
tutions, the arbiters of taste, and at the same time wanting
or needing the sort of recognition that only these institu-
tions can give them in terms of furthering their careers,
getting grants, or being able to support themselves. So a
lot of them get caught up halfway in between. Some of
them will opt for producing acceptable works, doing it

Published by Student Services

Emily Carr College of Art

249 Dunsmuir Street

Vancouver V6B 1X2

very well perhaps; some of them will opt to go toa parallel
or alternative systems, which in many ways is just a mirror
of the gallery institution. Those parallel galleries can be-
come quite bureaucratized and institutionalized them-
selves. This is an example of institutionalizing the problem
in the alternative. As soon as you incorporate the problem
into your solution, then you haven’t really made much
progress.

MOORE: What is there in the extension program that
you relish or find a correspondence with in your own
work?

BERECRY: I like to travel, there are themes in my work
(both sorts) of movement, chance, change, specific place
and exchange and connection. I also have eclectic tastes
which corresponds to a pluralistic approach to the produc-
tion of things. In the extension department we have to
adapt to an extraordinary range of styles and ideas and
present the works as fully as possible. For example, we
exhibit a large number of paintings. I support anyone who
wants to make paintings although I can’t imagine why
they do, and I think sometimes they’re wasting their
time, but I’m very glad they have the opportunity at least
to work that through, maybe reject it or develop it. I have
had to learn a great deal about painting in the last few
months. Okay, so we take the work out, whatever it is,

“The development of human consciousness was thus pre-
sented as a history of (ideas) beginning from zero and
applied always to the same phenomena, at first in the
erroneous beliefs about them and, as time went on, in the
form of more.and more correct and scientific beliefs. No
doubt the history of consciousness does include the story
of any number of erroneous beliefs, but the erroneous
beliefs of human beings about phenomena are neither the
most interesting nor the most important thing about the
human beings or about the phenomena.”’

— Owen Barfield, Saving the Appearances, a study in idol-
atry, Chapter X (1965)

and help people relate to it, make it accessible and parti-
cularly draw out of it everything that is in there. It’s like
anything that’s new: some people tend to reject‘it to
begin with. Some of the nicest things I know are acquired
tastes, things that I’ve learnt to like over a period of time.
Some of the newer forms of art are like that to other
people. You get a chance to talk to a lot of people, and

‘it’s surprising just how many active artists there are out

there in B.C., working away and desperately in need of
contact with somebody from a wider arts community and
experience than theirs. They look forward to you coming
from one year to the next, and they’ll remember the con-
versation you had the last time you talked to them. Now
they’ll say, when you were here last time you said these
things about my painting; I worked on that, now what do
you think.

McINTYRE: These are people who conceive they’re in-
volved in the arts?

BERECRY: Well, I think there’s a lot to be gained from
input from other people. I wouldn’t be doing this job
unless I thought contact/communication between people
wasn’t important. I wouldn’t be trying to make manifest
the various ideas that I have if I didn’t believe in some sort
of communication, or that others were going to get some-
thing from the experience of it — regardless of whether or
not there is always a communication shortfall.

The other thing which is exciting is that you some-
times find a responsiveness in people when it is least
expected. A by-product of the job is a building of the
possibility that more people in that community will con-

. sider ‘art as a legitimate activity and not just something

that only the people whd can’t play floor hockey will do.
Actually one of the ECCA first year students down at the
art gallery today said they were influenced in part by our
program in their coming to the art school. There’s another
thing I like, exposing the options.

Sometimes there will be classes of kids in a school,
they’re the what-do-you-call-them, the problem kids.
Nobody wants them. They’re English-is-a-second-language-
kids, the. special education kids, the misfit bin classes.
Teachers will warn you about them: you’ll-have-all-sorts-
of-trouble-with. .. , and these kids will come in and love it

PROBLEMS WITH FIRST YEaR

TEACHERS are toogod damn prejudice!!!

FOR instance, when the students put their work on the walls, for
the teachers to comment,,, the teachers should FIRST, comment on
the art work, THENS!!3$ ask "Who dunnit???7355"

An artist gets a great feeling of disinterest from the apathetic
foundation students, Alot of students,well more like ROBOTS, talk
but no action, It's TOO TOO TOO BAD most of the students are so
fucked up!!! ,.. These people aren't ARTISTS! $333

ATTENTIONS P28: ft:tg 0189.8

There is nothing wrong with the work done in the washrooms on the
5th floor, ..,1t's just paint for CHRISTSAKE,

FROM A VERY FORTUNATE ARTIST

because they don’t have to use the tools that they’re sup-
posed to have learned and haven’t throughout their educa-
tion. To have access to literature, for example, they will
need all the reading and word skills that they haven’t
learned, and so they avoid books. With visual art they _
— continued on page 2
Volume 1. Number 13
'.. cThink of this, to0: while you are hanging back, they
never hesitate; while you stay at home, they are always
‘abroad; for they think that the farther they go the more
they will get, while you think that any movement may
endanger what you have already. If they win a victory,
they follow it up at once, and if they suffer a defea
they scarcely fall back at all. As for their bodies, they
regard them as expendable for ther city's sake, as though
they were not their own; but each man cultfates his own
intelligence, again with a view to doing something notable
for his city. If they aim at something and do not get it,
they think that they have been deprived of what belonged
to them already; whereas, if their enterprice is successful,
they regard that success as nothing compared to what
they will do next. Suppose they fail in some undertaki
they make good the loss immediately by setting the
‘hopes in some other direction. Of them alone it may be
said that they possess a thing almost as soon as they have
Begun to desire it, s0 quickly with them does action follow
upon decision. And s0 they go on working in hardship and
danger all the days of their lives, seldom enjoying thelr
possessions because they are always adding to them. Their
view of a holiday is to do what needs doing; they prefer
‘hardship and activity to peace and quiet. In « word, they
are by nature incapable of either living a quiet life them-
selves or of allowing anyone else to do s
= from the Corinthian speech in the debate at Sparta,
Thucydides, The Peloponnesian War, Book 1, Chapter 6
(©. 415 B.C.)

By persistence on the part of certain indduals, no mater ther
earnest and interes, the folowing interview wth Nell Breer
Is been completed et iat. By no means could any inoduction
deserbe the person or the wark he ascomplses tn Tat the
intention ofthe intentew wre to provide whatever potsble
sia, eth pc, The gue rt, an
interiew with tis person of the Contemporary surroundings?
Twas a Belles on the art of the intervtewers that perhaps what
‘we potential had wets medlum through which severe pertinent
{Guestions could be examined. The ott notable shortcoming of
Sthatfolowa ts that thre was not al enough opportunty to
‘mention and connect other Information and idea 4 main theme
Uinderying much that i aluded to concerns the paradoxes 0f ro:
irs mbt nc hope il eee ri ateon

“A es might et fst sound pretentious: For One thing, why
‘omer to delve Ito such questions and with such an india?
10" this there area lear! two antwer. lat theiterewers
would be decay delighted If many others would undertake on)
{ort of comparable study of contemporary atfand ats Such an
i ers wl rey be op forma in ern,
tor backward, Secondly, 200 century thing poses tis eapons
Diy upon us: is simpy a fact tat mader conditions, whether
we like tor not, oblige sto schteve some apprehension ofeach
Set snmp: linn tro, anon Slm hat
the present interview setifies these demands, nde hope thet
‘there we hae falen short others wil do be ve
{uains about the ily of what has been stomped. We hope
that any such dscusion vil continue to Occur n'X° eset.

“Gordon Moore, Harry Metniyre

GORDON MOORE: Could you tell us what you are
doing now, thera the Vancouver Art Gallery on your
NEIL BERECRY: 1 think there area lot of similares
in what I'm doing with the art gallery and my own work,
But Tl leave the discussion of my own work unt later
and just for now talk about what Cam doing atthe ga
lery (VAG). Do you want any details bout the extension
program? Okay, very briefly the extension program a the
VAG takes “art,” moat of It from the permanent colle:
tion of the gallery, some of borrowed! from artists, to
Pu together an cihion = sometimes around theme,
Sometimes around an issue in contemporary art. The
tahibtion is taken into the province to diferent towns
nd presented to schools and community groups, 1
ot just dumped and left tothe merey of lotal insight oF
Prejudice. ‘We, who work in extension, have an important
Function in “animating,” bringing i to hfe, elucidating
as honestly and extensively as posible th artists concerns
making I accesible. And thi is one ofthe things that
Tam particulary interested in, that sccesbily. tvould
think that a gallery has a responsibility to the community
to demystify the at proces, and their relation to artist,
to make what they have accesible.
HARRY McINTYRE: ‘That which mysities also de-
mmysifies the art process? That isa most peculiar notion,
Wt hat the VAG ha, what it showing to peopl
BERECRY: It is to a lage extent 4 museum, an art
‘museum, where work refers to the past, ‘There are many
definitions of a museum, Muscums can be either totaly
concerned with the preservation and. explanation of
Cultural artifacts and ‘debris or with the collection of
Cultural commodities trom the immediate past Le. the
“new” divetons af contemporary at, or2 combination
of both or a mix which includes being an informational
fesouree like a Hbrary a catalyst and focus for contem-
Porary art in the locality, a cowrdination point for
Significant international touring exhibitions, a forum for
taploration of new forms and approaches, a verifier of
futhenicity and excellence, place for people to build
Careers, cogin the machinery which maintain dominant
ideologies, a place which maintains a necessary link with
ants past, «place where "art? can be made and where

Emily Carr College of Art

the
x

March 20, 1979

AEP

artists can work, ete. ete., or any combination of the
above in varying degrees of proficiency. They deal
artifacts and related ideas.
MeINTYRE: It tends to be a provincial attitude cen-
‘rally, really, all of a sudden in the outlying areas, the
Vancouver Art Gallery gives a propagandized version of
‘what art supposedly constitutes ~ the credibility thrives
fon landscape scenes with nice snowflakes falling down.
So the gallery docs a lot of saving the appearances while
‘making “great” cultural notices?
BERECRY: 1 will say a bit about that. That is one of the
criticisms of the program and it isa criticism that comes
from people in Vancouver as well as from outlying centres.
‘They are sometimes suspicious of anything that comes
from the city, particularly Vancouver. They don't want
to have people coming to their community saying this is
What contemporary art is. It is seen that the statement
is made simply by coming into a town and saying ‘“We
are from Vancouver Art Gallery.” You are implying that
‘what you have brought is significant and that it is art.
We can't avoid this presumption, probably accurate, and
it is something we must work around if we are to honestly
represent (if possible) the artist's concerns. An art gallery
or art museum to many people denotes prestige, accepta-
bility, a stamp of approval, a definition of excellence,
credibility ~ and that is why we as animateurs travel with
the work, We could simply send the work alone and that
would be limited, but we go with it as the idea is to
ge the gap, to deal with the psychological objection
to the work and try to bring out the artist’s main concerns.
McINTYRE: In some ways I can see where this would
only further obscure and mystify. Surely as well, Nel, if
itis coming from the VAG bank it is probably not that
contemporary, I mean in attitudes towards at.
BERECRY: Okay. Our job is to extend the gallery
funetion. And the Gallery is in part a museum, so to
some extent we're extending a museum function, And
‘we're taking work which has gone through all the changes
that an object goes through once it’s put into a museum,
{into an institutional context, a context which clearly, 1
think, reflects a certain position in the social hierarchy.
It identifies with a certain socio-political stance. Okay,
you can deal with that, You can take the work out and
talk about those issues to the people viewing. You
can say, look, we've brought out work that isn't con-
temporary and is affected by its museum associations. 1
think you can take out any work at all and deal with the
contemporary issues, even if it's ahistorical work.

At the same time as dealing with techniques and the
art historical conditions of an artifact's having been made,
fone can also examine and discuss the differences and
similarities between the exhibited work and contemporary
artists, processes and concerns. And by an inductive
‘method relate both to a viewer's own experiences — which

fof courte overcomes some initial hostility if it exists.

ateur is an agent of change. In some
Ways & touring exhibition is like a tavelling medicine
show. A trick, something for everyone, and being able to
let people enjoy being tricked out of their old preoecu-
ppations with craft, skill and product while extending to
them the ideas surrounding artistic excellence, and the
‘enjoyment and excitement of new, previously. unavail:
able, contemplative and philosophical experiences. We
do incidentally also take out quite contemporary “thing
‘The other thing that happens to an institutional
artifact has to do with the passage of time — the fact that
the art never remains constant, It’s always in a state of
decay once it leaves the artist. I feel quite differently
bout the work I did last week than that which I'm work
ing on now. Tn a museum we're dealing with something
the artist has put behind or put aside, put out of their
lives, that’s how I feel about my things once I've stopped.
‘working on them,
MOORE: So we're still left with the political and com-
plex thing which occurs through the art gallery standing
behind artists in a historical sense, puffing up their im-
portance and obscuring a better understanding. At this
time anyway we are left knowing often that participating
in what the gallery presents, how these works are pre-
sented, may mean participating in mistaken collective
representatives,

BERECRY: That's very difficult, and yes it's true.
How an art gallery goes about purchasing, putt

artist's work in the permanent collection, or giving an
‘exhibition to a particular person is a difficult issue that
‘causes much resentment and misunderstanding but is a
reality we have to face and deal with because, if we are
Iucky, we're going to continue to have art galleries and
‘museums. T think a lot of young artists are caught in
between wanting to totally ignore the galleries, the insti
tutions, the arbiters of taste, and at the same time wanting
needing the sort of recognition that only these institu-
tions can give them in terms of furthering their careers,
{getting grants, or being able to support themselves. So a
Tot of them get caught up halfway in between. Some of
them will opt for producing acceptable works, dé

Published by Student Services
Emily Care College of Art
249 Dunamir Steet
Vancouver V6B. 1X2
very well pethap: opt to go toaparallel
‘or alternative systems, which in many ways is just a mirror
of the gallery institution. Those parallel galleries can be-
come quite bureaucratized and institutionalized them-
selves. This is an example of institutionalizing the problem
the alternative. As soon as you incorporate the problem
into your solution, then you haven't really made much
progress.
MOORE: What is there in the extension program that
‘you relish or find a correspondence with in your own
work?
BERECRY: I like to travel, there are themes in my work
(both sorts) of movement, chance, change, specifie place
and exchange and connection. I also have celectic tastes
‘which corresponds to a pluralistic approach to the produc.
tion of things. In the extension department we have to
adapt to an extraordinary range of styles and ideas and
present the works as fully as possible. For example

"imagine why
they do, and I’ think sometimes they're wasting their
time, but I'm very glad they have the opportunity atleast
to work that through, maybe reject itor develop it.I have
had to learn a great deal about painting in the last few
months. Okay, 50 we take the work out, whatever i i,

“The development of human consciousness was thus pre
sented as a history of (ideas) beginning from zero and
‘applied always to the same phenomena, at first in the
erroncous beliefs about them and, as time went on, in the
form of more.énd more correct and scientific beliefs. No
doubt the history of conseioumess does include the story
of any number of erroneous beliefs, but the erroneous
beliefs of human beings about phenomena are neither the
‘most interesting nor the most important thing about the
human beings or about the phenomena."

~ Owen Barfield, Saving the Appearances, a study in idol-
‘try, Chapter X (1965)

land help people relate to it, make it accessible and part
ularly draw out of it everything that is in there. It's like
anything that’s new: some people tend to reject'it to
begin with, Some of the nicest things I know are acquired
tastes, things that I've learnt to like over a period of time.
Some of the newer forms of art are like that to other
people. You get a chance to talk t0 a lot of people, and
{es surprising just how many active artists there are out
there in B.C., working away and desperately in need of
‘contact with somebody from a wider arts community and
experience than theirs. They look forward to you coming
from one year to the next, and they'll remember the con-
versation you had the last time you talked to them. Now
they'll say, when you were here last time you said these
things about my painting; I worked on that, now what do
‘you think.

McINTYRE: These are people who conceive they're in-
volved in the arts?

BERECRY: Wel, I think there's a lot to be gained from
input from other people. I wouldn't be doing this job
unless I thought contact/communication between people
wasn’t important, I wouldn’t be trying to make manifest
the various ideas that I have ifI didn't believe in some sort
‘of communication, or that others were going to get some-
thing from the experience of it — regardless of whether or
not there is always a communication shortfall,

‘The other thing which is exciting is that you some-
times find a responsiveness in people when it is least

oduct of the job is a building of the
possibility that more people in that community will con
Sider art as a legitimate activity and not just something
that only the people wh can’t play floor hockey will d.
‘Actually one of the ECGA first year students down at the
art gallery today said they were influenced in part by our
program in their coming to the art school. There's another
thing I like, exposing the options.

Sometimes there will be classes of kids in a school,
they're the what-do-you-allthem, the problem kid
Nobody wants them. They're Englishis-a-second-language-
Kids, the special education kids, the misfit bin classes.
‘Teachers will warn you about them: you'l-haveall-sorts-
‘of-trouble-with,.. and these kids will come in and love

PRGELESS WINE FIRST TEAR

‘BACIERS are toogot daze prague
‘RR Snotance, wiwn the etuseats fut thats vork on the walls, for
the taachere to comert.., the teashers shoul JIE, coment x
he art work, ZEBHHIHE die "ho dunia 77

sn artiot guts a great feeling of disinterest fron the apathetic

{founiatien students, Alot of sbuienta,vell nore Like ROBOTS, talk

fut no action, 1t¥»"700 100 700 BLD alot ot the etutente are 22
“ee Those people aren't ARTIST!

‘There Se nothing wrong with the werk deve in the washrooms on the
5th floor, .,,Jts gust paint for CHRISTA,

ROL A VRE FORTUIATE ARTIST

because they don't have to use the tools that they're sup-
posed to have learned and haven't throughout their educs
tion, To have access to literature, for example, they wi
need all the reading and word skills that they haven’t
Tearned, and s0 they avoid books. With visual at they
~ continued on pe