“lm not an abstract kind of guy.” continued from page 3 POA: BC: POA: BC: understanding of the issues before they bubble up to the point where they become confrontational. The other thing I’m going to do is establish a _ monthly staff meeting, which is an all-Institute meeting and brings all staff and faculty up-to-date on the issues as we work through them as well, just to try to improve communications. When do you think either of these meetings might come on stream? Late September or early October for the first meeting. We'll probably have three per term. : You were saying that you don’t want to make large policy-related decisions, or that’s what I was under- standing, due to this interim period between presi- dents ... Well, to be honest with you, I think the first large policy decisions we are going to be faced with, and you're going to think “here goes the bean counter again”, are related to the potential fall out from the cutbacks that come from federal transfer payment cutbacks and ultimately get passed on to the provin- cial government. If the federal government makes good on a 350 million dollar cutback in transfer pay- ments in 1996-97, and then follows that up with a 400 million dollar cutback in 1997-98, and the province is still trying to deal with their budgetary deficit, the province will basically be passing on these cuts to health and education, and to the largest users of these funds. So the first policy issues we are really going to have to deal with are related to those potential cutbacks. We've got a letter from our provincial government basically instructing us to work through plans to deal with up to a ten percent cutback. In our case, that amounts to about $700,000, actually more than that. And I think it’s incumbent upon us to get the ball rolling and begin working through a what-if process. And that’s going to take the biggest bulk of my time, I think, in the fall, working through this process with the various constituencies. That’s policy making and there could be some radical changes in there as well. The cutbacks are © going to be system- wide. POA: BC: POA: BC: And that’s going to go ahead without waiting for the future president to take office? It has to go ahead. It just has to. Can you anticipate or look ahead to the impact on students over the next three to four years of this kind of strategizing? Yeah. I mean, I'll give you an example. UBC, when the federal government first announced these transfer payment cutbacks, announced to their student body that any cutbacks, at least this is what I recall at the time, and it’s probably a bit of a political play on their part, or whatever their reasons were, basically they said “any shortfall we incur as a result of federal transfer payment cutbacks is going to be passed on to the students in the way of tuition fees.” So they were saying, “Please expect your fees to be doubling POA: BC: POA: BC: POA: - or more next year.” Obvious dramatic increases in tuition fees are a potential consequence for students. Now, I don’t think UBC believes that’s the way they would handle any shortfalls, but in my mind it’s not appropriate to pass everything on to students and no one else. It’s not appropriate that everyone else stays the same, that we continue to do things the way we were doing them, and that the impact will be borne only by the students. That’s just not appropriate. So that’s why I think all constituencies in the Institute have something to say about how we deal with this. Personally, I think we have to take a very, very hard look at how we deliver education programmes at the institution because it’s the cost per student in the delivery of that education that impacts on the budget. Our budget is eighty-five percent salaries. We are a very labour intensive organization, and that’s where potential savings are. But, you know, you also have to look at dealing with the budgetary issues without affecting the quality of the services you are delivering to the students. You have to try to find that happy medium and that’s where we are going to have to explore. Would art education at ECIAD be better if there was more money available? : The education itself, well ... I'd say it would enable us to provide more services in support of that education. And that impacts on the quality of the overall expe- rience at the institution. I think we’ve done a pretty good job in maintaining a studio-based education with relatively small class sizes and employing working artists. To me, I think most students feel that that side of things is okay at ECIAD. There seem to be more things like support as they are working through their projects, or capital equipment, or hours related to access to the studios - for example, our wood shop and our metal shop have to close because we are unable to staff them; there are safety issues involved, and they shut at 4:30 or 5:00 p.m. Obviously, for a student working in the area of sculp- ture for.example, that really limits their time for studio access. So I would say the pressure is on us not on the direct teaching side but more on the support side of things. Should ECIAD students be getting the message that the value to society of an art education is in decline in relation to professional or vocational training? No. The cutbacks are going to be system-wide. They are not going to be focused on any particular type of institution. In fact, I would say that ECIAD has gained more and more credibility with the Ministry and the bureaucrats that we normally deal with in terms of the value of an art and design education and what that education and those students that come out with that education can contribute to society. And I think that that’s shown by the commit- ment of the Ministry to the new building, and by ECIAD being designated one of five university col- leges in the system and now offering a degree, which again is a real step in establishing our credibility. I don’t have any fear of us being focused on as an art and design institution in terms of bearing more of a brunt of cutbacks than say a UBC or a BCIT. In fact, I would even argue the opposite, that we may even do better because of the economies of scale from being a small institution. Speaking as the lead member of this institution, in what way should students be more realistic, if at all, or do you find that they are realistic about their edu- cation here? BC: SEPTEMBER 1995 / PLANET OF THE ARTS ] 3 Surveys we have done over the years were designed to establish how well we were doing, not what the Ministry was particularly looking at, but what stu- dents were coming here for. There was some pressure on us to have education all be directly related to apprenticeship programmes, to be directly related to jobs. What the Ministry was more or less looking for at that time was assessing whether or not the educa- tion we were providing was leading directly to jobs. But we took a different approach. We surveyed the students and asked them “What are you coming to Emily Carr for”; and there was a whole range of answers - some were coming here for jobs, a lot were coming here because they wanted to pursue their cre- ative talents, and they were very realistic about what that meant too. But in terms of what they were origi- nally coming to the Institute for, they felt well served in the types of things we were doing here by and large. I’ve bought art because | liked it. 1 haven’t ever viewed it as an investment. POA: BC: POA: BC: POA: BC: POA: BC: POA: BC: Do you love art? Okay, let me first say that I’m no ... [pause] ... partic- ular judge of art and until I came here really it was not something I had much knowledge about one way or the other. I have definitely developed a real appre- ciation for the talent and the creativity and the types of people who come here. I appreciate what it takes to go through the process of art making. I still like what I like and don’t like what I don’t like. But hope- fully I have grown to understand more about what drives people to come here. Can you tell me anything about what you like and don’t like, specific artists or works of art? [pause] ... Maybe this is from my academic ground- ing—I'm not an abstract kind of guy. [laughs] But I don’t just like pictures of landscapes and boats either. I don’t know. I think I'll decline to comment specifi- cally on that. I’m not sure. It’s hard to describe. Would you say that art is a better investment that typical VSE stock? [laughs] Probably. Have you invested in either? Yes I have, in both. Actually, I haven’t invested in art; I have bought art because I liked it. I haven’t ever viewed it as an investment. I have invested in the VSE. [laughs] And I won’t comment further on that. Why would anyone bother enrolling at ECIAD? Well, judging from the level of the people interested in going here, we obviously have a lot to offer. There are a lot of creative people out there, very talented people, and they need an environment in which they can explore that talent, that creativity. And we are one of the few institutions that is able to accommo- date that. We are one of the few places that can really, I think, effectively deal with that type of approach, that type of education. Rather than being more structured and directed, we are a little more free and experimental. “I'm not an abstract kind of guy.” comes om page 2 Be: understanding of the issues before they bubble up to the point where they become confrontational. The other thing I'm going to do is establish a monthly staff meeting, which isan all-Institute meeting and brings al staff and faculty up-to-date ‘on the issues as we work through them as well just to try to improve communications. When do you think either of these meetings might ‘come on stream? Late September or early October forthe first meeting. We'll probably have three per term. You were saying that you don't want to make large policy-related decisions, or that’s what was under- standing, due to this interim period between presi- dents. Well, to be honest with you, I think the first lange policy decisions we are going to be faced with, and ‘you're going to think “here goes the bean counter are related to the potential fall out from the ‘cutbacks that come from federal transfer payment ‘cutbacks and ultimately get passed on to the provin- cial government. Ifthe federal government makes good on a 350 million dollar cutback in transfer pay ‘ments in 1996-97, and then follows that up with a 400 million dollar cutback in 1997-98, and the province is still trying to deal with th deficit, the province will basically be pa these Cuts to health and education, and tothe largest users ofthese funds. So the first policy issues we are really going to have to deal with are related to those potential cutbacks. We've gota letter from our provincial government basically instructing us to work through plans to deal with up to a ten percent cutback. In our cas, that amounts to about $700,000, actually more than that. ‘And I think i's incumbent upon us to get the ball rolling and begin working through a what-if process. ‘And that’s going to take the biggest bulk of my time, [think in the fall, working through this process with the various constituencies. That's policy making and there could be some radical changes in there as well The cutbacks are going to be system- wide. POA: BC: POA: BC: ‘And that's going to go ahead without waiting for the future president to take office? thas to go ahead. It just has to ‘Can you anticipate or look ahead to the impact on students over the next three to four years ofthis kind of strategizing? ‘Yeah. I mean, I'l give you an example. UBC, when the federal government first announced these transfer payment cutbacks, announced to their student body ‘that any cutbacks, at least this is what I recall atthe time, and it's probably a bit of a politcal play on ‘their part, oF whatever their reasons were, basically they said “any shortfall we incur as a result of federal ‘transfer payment cutbacks is going to be passed on to the students in the way of tuition fes.” So they ‘were saying, “Please expect your fees to be doubling POA: or more next year.” Obvious dramatic increases in tuition fees area potential consequence for students. Now, I don't think UBC believes that's the way they ‘would handle any shortfalls, but in my mind it's not appropriate to pass everything on to students and no ‘one ese. Its not appropriate that everyone else stays the same, that we continue to do things the way we were doing them, and that the impact will be borne only by the students. Tha’s just not appropriate. So that’s why I think all constituencies in the Institute hhave something to say about how we deal with this. Personally, I think we have to take a very, very hard Took at how we deliver education programmes atthe Institution because it's the cost per student in the delivery of that education that impacts on the budget. Our budget is eighty-five percent salaries. We are a very labour intensive organization, and that's ‘where potential savings are. But, you know, you also have to look at dealing with the budgetary issues ‘without affecting the quality ofthe services you are delivering to the students. You have to try to find that happy medium and that’s where we are going to hhave to explore. Would art education at ECIAD be better if there was ‘more money available? ‘The education itself, well . Pd say it would enable us to provide more services in support of that education. ‘And that impacts on the quality of the overall expe- rience at the institution. I think we've done a pretty {good job in maintaining a studio-based education with relatively small class sizes and employing working artists. To me, I think most students feel that that side of things is okay at ECIAD. There seem to ‘be more things like support as they are working, through their projects, or capital equipment, or hours related to access to the studios - for example, our ‘wood shop and our metal shop have to close because wwe are unable to staf them; there are safety issues involved, and they shut at 4:30 or 5:00 p.m. Obviously, for a student working in the area of sculp- ‘ure for example, that really limits their time for studio access. So I would say the pressure is on us not om the direct teaching side but more on the support side of things. ‘Should ECIAD students be getting the message that ‘the value to society of an art education isin decline in elation to professional or vocational training? No. The cutbacks are going to be system-wide. They are not going to be focused on any particular type of institution. In fac, I would say that ECIAD has ained more and more credibility withthe Ministry ‘and the bureaucrats that we normally deal with in ‘terms ofthe value of an art and design education ‘and what that education and those students that ‘come out with that education can contribute to society, And I think that tha’s shown by the commit- ‘ment ofthe Ministry to the new building, and by ECIAD being designated one of five university col- leges in the system and now offering a degre, wich again isa real step in establishing our credibility. 1 don't have any fear of us being focused on as an art ‘and design institution in terms of bearing more of a brunt of cutbacks than say a UBC of @ BCIT. Infact, 1 ‘would even argue the opposite, that we may even do better because of the economies of scale from being 2 small institution. ‘Speaking as the lead member of ths institution, in what way should students be more realistic, if at all, ‘or do you find that they are realistic about their edu cation here? Serrewer 1995 | Puwer oF THe Ams 13 ‘Surveys we have done over the years were designed to establish how well we were doing, not what the Ministry was particularly looking at, but what stu- dents were coming here for. Tere was some pressure fon us to have education all be directly related to apprenticeship programmes, to be directly related to Jobs. What the Ministry was more or less looking for ‘at that time was assessing whether or not the educa tion we were providing was leading directly to jobs. But we took a diferent approach. We surveyed the students and asked them “What are you coming to Emily Carr for"; and there was a whole range of ‘answers ~ some were coming here for jobs, alot were ‘coming here because they wanted to pursue their cre- ative talents, and they were very realistic about what that meant too. But in terms of what they were ori nally coming to the Insitute fo, they felt well served in the types of things we were doing here by and large. I’ve bought art because | liked it. 1 haven’t ever viewed it as an investment. POA: Be: POA: Be: Poa: Be: Do you love art? Okay, let me first say that 'm no .. [pause] ‘lar judge of art and until I came here really it was not something I had much knowledge about one way or the other. Ihave definitely developed a real appre- Jn forthe talent and the creativity and the types ‘of people who come here. I appreciate what it takes to go through the process of art making. I tll ike What I lke and don’t like what I dont like. But hope- fully Ihave grown to understand more about what Arives people to come here. Can you tell me anything about what you like and don't like, specific artists or works of ar? [pause] .. Maybe this is from my academic ground- ing=I'm not an abstract kind of guy. laughs} But 1 don't just like pictures of landscapes and boats either. don't know. I think Ill decline to comment specifi- cally on that 'm not sure. I's hard to describe. Would you say that artis better investment that typical VSE stock? {laughs] Probably. Have you invested in either? Yes I ave, in both. Actually, I haven't invested in art | have bought art because [liked it. haven't cver viewed it as an investment. I have invested in the VSE. flaughs} And I won't comment further on that. Why would anyone bother enrolling at ECIAD? Will, judging from the level ofthe people interested in going here, we obviously have a lot to offer. There are a lot of creative people out there, very talented people, and they need an environment in which they can explore that talent, that creativity. And we are ‘one ofthe few institutions that is able to accommo- date that. We are one of the few places that can really, think, effectively deal with that type of approach, that type of education. Rather than being rmore structured and directed, we are a litle more free and experimental.