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don’t need anything but their initial response, which they all have, and a chance to learn to trust it.

McINTYRE: I think it’s one of the things Picasso said, that in the school system some of the biggest problem children could potentially become some of the better artists.

BERECRY: The same applies also to the exceptional children. A lot that I like about this job has to do with potential, giving people as many options as possible and allowing whatever potential is there the fullest opportunity for growth. I think the program is quite a successful one, it does more than just take the work out, it fulfills a num- ber of the gallery’s functions as an information exchange. We put people with questions in touch with the appro- priate places. For example, they might want to know what they should do to have an exhibition, or who they could write to for certain information about artists. MOORE: Do you know the size of the budget used in the program?

BERECRY: Not counting salaries, it’s $30,000.

MOORE: And that’s for all of B.C.?

BERECRY: Yes, we travel to 60 centers. About 45 of them are animated stops where we make presentations. We also package shows and send them off. Mainly they go to the national exhibition centers, museums, and galleries that are set up around the province. But it’s the contact/ animation that’s so unique with this program. McINTYRE: Doesn’t this whole network of places that are fed information, fed work, exposed to the Vancouver Art Gallery, constitute a political structure?

BERENCRY: Oh yes, it is.

McINTYRE: I just find it very hard to avoid that. BERECRY: Yes, you’re right, it is, which is very much a thing to be aware of in the program; you’re dealing with political realities, it exists in a very real way, in a very political way in the society. And there are limitations con- sequently, but I’d rather be in there trying to overcome those limitations than ignoring them and wishing they didn’t exist. There’s a responsibility for the people in the arts community to work on these problems. There is a lot of money being poured into the arts, and if the arts com- munity doesn’t agree with the way it’s being spent, then they’ve only got themselves to blame. They should exer- cise their option to influence things.

MOORE: Do you meet people who work in such a way that no physical forms are made, yet they would still say, “this is my art?”

BERECRY: It happens, yes, you do meet people like that. There are people who feel the things they’re doing in their lives are art. And perhaps they’re right. Yet to say that your life is your art is often a copout. Many of the people you meet who say that haven’t really thought it through. There’s a consciousness necessary to make any of your actions art. A lot of people will do things and think

that because they’re expressing whatever they have inside

them — whether it is confusion, neurosis, happiness, de- pression, whatever — it’s art. Art is not simply gratuitous expression. There are some people, not very many, that you meet who do, I think, actually make art in their

Photograph of a work by Neil Berecry (1977) judged in last year’s HPG Awards. “I make my works very much as tools, tools I use to manipulate my thoughts, or to do something to my ideas... .

lives. Their life is their art. But they are very few, and they’re not usually the people who'll come and say, “My life is my art.”

On the other hand, I think there are people who can honestly say that. This is very confusing, you see, because I work in a similar way myself. I try and apply the “‘art’’ energies and approaches I have to much of what I do — if someone wants to call it art then it’s their problem, it’s not mine. I try to do it consciously, and also intuitively, there’s a play between the two, a play between the science and the magic. It’s not with the intention of producing anything I can later label art, or that anyone else could label art. But I can, because it’s been made in that way, afterwards apply to what I’ve done all of the tools I would apply in looking at anyone else’s art. I’ve done it in this house, this place I’m living in. The whole thing was very consciously done, but I’m not going to analyze it in those terms. Yet I can make all sorts of analogies, I can relate it to various art styles and approaches to so-called art making if I want to. Yet I’m not going to say my life is my art. Both things involve paradox and contradiction,

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we're getting into my art, you know.

MOORE: Yes, we’re bordering on taking a look at the elements in your work. Let me ask a couple of questions here first, with a humorous bent, such as what sorts of things can one not afford to believe, in the sense of art contexts. I think you may have answered one of them by saying that one can’t really go around saying that my life is my art.

McINTYRE: On the other hand, why can’t you? Some people are very successful with that.

BERECRY: Sometimes that statement is made by people and it’s accurate, but mostly by people where it’s just easy. Anyway, the things we must not believe in? The things you can’t believe in? Oh, you can believe in any- thing at all, that’s one of the nice things about us. MOORE: Aw shucks, and I thought we were going to get a few Mark Twain eulogies here.

BERECRY: No seriously, you can believe in anything you like, so what’s the problem? I hope people producing art can believe in art as being many many different things. One thing we can’t afford to believe in is that there is one thing to believe in or not believe in, or that one should only believe in certain things, or that you can ask questions like that.

MOORE: Touché. One more question before we get into your work, if we could. I wanted to know if there was any kinship you felt with other artists of this time.

BERECRY: Ah, kinship. . I feel kinship with certain artists, not close kinship. I find some of them are dealing with things I’m dealing with, some of them are working in very similar ways. So I suppose I should feel a kinship with them, but I don’t particularly, possibly because there hasn’t been a connection in the development of the ideas. We seem to have arrived at the same or similar point together, but we haven’t made the journey together. We might not even have arrived along parallel roads, we might have come from completely different directions, and we might head off in completely different directions or in the same direction, I don’t know. But it’s almost like a coinci- dental meeting; I don’t think it’s coincidental or insignifi- cant that so many people seem to be converging around certain nodes, I suppose you could say, of philosophical positions. Certain thought patterns emerge simultaneously in very different places, and maybe in retrospect we will realize why they appear to have arrived there for different reasons and the historical significance of where and what it is. I feel in a strange position with my work in that I can find parallels in other people’s work, but I find. . . I’m avoiding specifying people, you see. . . I’ve got a problem. There are very few people with whom I talk about my work here in Vancouver. Now that’s not entirely because they’re not around. For some reason I tend not to talka great deal about my art with people. There are people I feel a kinship with, in that I know they partly understand the way I’m thinking, and I understand the way they’re thinking about their art, and I don’t need to talk about it. I know that if we talked we’d probably agree. I love to see their work when they produce it, because in their work they crystallize those common concerns. They will have probably taken some of those things that I’m concerned about a few steps further than I’ve reached, and maybe in my work I do the same to them. I subscribe to and read a lot of magazines on contemporary art, international maga- zines. I’m very interested in what’s happening in other places, particularly in Europe. I don’t think we hear enough of what’s happening in Europe or anywhere else outside North America. McINTYRE: Is that because a great deal of the contem- porary art scene just doesn’t seem to be happening around here anyway to begin with? Do you feel there is that sort of void and that sort of schism, which is why you can’t find a touch here with dialogue? BERECRY: It could be — but then on the other hand I think I’m dealing with my own personality, and I don’t know what it’s like for other people because I tend to work, when I work, in isolation and talk about it in retro- spect. Because when I’m in the middle of it I’m not ready to talk about it. For example, some time ago, I made the choice of talking about the latest piece on which I’m working, and now I have constantly to update people because each time I see them so much has changed. Another thing is that each year since I’ve been in Canada I’ve left the country and gone elsewhere. I’ve been able to afford it because I’ve worked all the time. When I

PISA ASAI AAS ASA tt

Info on the show (Foundation)

Les objets d’art are to be submitted on Friday April 6 at the fourth floor Water Street, up until 9:00 P.M. A maximum of four works per student may be submitted. Only currently enrolled students may bring in work and these must have been produced during the year (though not necessarily in the workshops).

A brief form may accompany each piece for identi- fication and explanation. These forms will be available before the end of the month. Individual or group produc- tions in virtually any medium including slides, film, and video, may be submitted. Also, student documenta- tion of classes and projects will be welcome.

Presentation and details of the show are being han-' dled by Sam Carter’s class. The criteria for selection are being hammered out jointly by a student-faculty commit- tee comprised of Alison Browse, Stephen Clarke, Steve Harrison, Susan Hillman, Dale Hunter and Sandra Platt.

The show will be held in the Robson Square Media Centre in the new courthouse complex. A good public location with good facilities for various media.

Opening night will be Tuesday April 17 at 7:00 P.M. The show will run from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M. April 18 to 27 Monday: through Saturday.

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don’t need anything but their initial response, which they all have, and a chance to learn to trust McINTYRE: I think it’s one of the things Picasso ssid, that in the school system some of the biggest problem children could potentially become some of the better BERECRY: The same applies also to the exceptional children, A lot that I like about this job has to do with potential, giving people as many options as possible and Allowing whatever potential is there the fullest opportunity for growth. I think the program is quite a successful one, it does more than just take the work out, it fulfills a num: beer of the gallery’s functions as an information exchange. We put people with questions in touch with the appro: pfiate places. For example, they might want to know What they should do to have an exhibition, or who they Could write to for certain information about artists Do you know the size of the budget used in the

1g salaries, i's $30,000. MOORE: And that's forall of B.C.?

BERECRY: Yes, we travel to 60 centers. About 45 of them are animated stops where we make presentations. We also package shows and send them off. Mainly they go to the national exhibition centers, museums, and galleries that are set up around the province. But it’s the contact/ ‘animation that’s so unique with this program, MeINTYRE: Doesn't this whole network of places that are fed information, fed work, exposed to the

‘Art Gallery, constitute a political structure? BERENCRY: Oh yes, its.

McINTYRE: I just find it very hard to avoid that, BERECRY: Yes, you're right, i is, which is very much a thing to be aware of in the program; you're dealing with political realities, it exists in a very real way, in a very political way in the society. And there are limitations con- Sequently, but I'd rather be in there trying to overcome those limitations than ignoring them and wishing they didn't exist, There's a responsibility for the people in the farts community to work on these problems. There isa lot ‘of money being poured into the arts, and if the arts com: munity doesn't agree with the way it's being spent, then they've only got themselves to blame. They should exer- cise their option to influence things

MOORE: Do you mect people who work in such a way that no physical forms are made, yet they would still say, “this is my art?”

BERECRY: It happens, yes, you do mect people like that, There are people who feel the things they're doing in their lives are art, And perhaps they're right. Yet to say that your life is your art is often a copout. Many of the people you meet who say that haven't really thought it through, There's a consciousness necessary to make any of your actions art. A lot of people will do things and think that because they're expressing whatever they have inside them — whether it is confusion, neurosis, happiness, de- pression, whatever — its art. Art is not simply gratuitous Expression, There are some people, not very many, that ‘you mect who do, I think, actually make art in their

gr

Photograph of a work by Nell Berecr) (1977) judged in tast year’s Hib wards, “1 make my works ver) much as tools, tool T use fo monipulate my thought, or 10 do something £0 my ides.

lives. Their life is their art, But they are very few, and they're not usually the people who'll come and say, “My life is my art.”

‘On the other hand, I think there are people who can honestly say that. This is very confusing, you see, because L work in a similar way myself. I try and apply the “art” ‘energies and approaches I have to much of what I do ~ if Someone wants to call it art then it's their problem, it’s not mine. I try to do it consciously, and also intuitively,

jere’s a play between the two, a play between the science land the magic, I’s not with the intention of producing fanything I ean later label art, or that anyone else could

bel art. But 1 can, because it’s been made in that way, afterwards apply to what 've done all of the tools T ‘would apply in looking at anyone else's art. I've done it in this house, this place I'm living in. The whole thing was very consciously done, but I'm not going to analyze it those terms, Yet I can make all sorts of relate it to various art styles and approaches to so-called art making if I want to, Yet I'm not going to say my life is my art, Both things involve paradox and contradiction,

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we're getting into my art, you know. MOORE: Yes, we're bordering on taking a look at the

clements in your work. Let me ask a couple of questions here first, with a humorous bent, such as what sorts of things can one not afford to believe, in the sense of art contexts, I think you may have answered one of them by saying that one can't really go around saying that my life is my art

McINTYRE:

On the other hand, why can’t you? Some sticcessful with that Sometimes that statement is made by people = accurate, but mostly by people where i's just easy. Anyway, the things we must not believe in? The things you can't believe in? Oh, you can believe in any. thing at all, that’s one of the nice things about us. MOORE: ‘Aw shucks, and I thought we were going to get a few Mark Twain eulogies here. BERECRY: No seriously, you can believe in anything ‘you like, so what's the problem? I hope people producing art can believe in art as being many many different things. ‘One thing we can’t afford to believe in is that there is one thing to believe in or not believe in, or that one should only believe in certain things, or that you can ask questions ce that. MOORE: Touché. One more question before we get into your work, if we could, I wanted to know if there was any kinship you felt with other artists of this time. BERECRY: Ah, kinship. . I feel kinship with certain artists, not close kinship. I find some of them are dealing ‘with things I'm dealing with, some of them are working in very similar ways. So I suppose I should feel a kinship ‘with them, but I don’t particularly, possibly because there hhasn’t been a connection in the development of the ideas, We seem to have arrived at the same or similar point together, but we haven't made the journey together. We right not even have arrived along parallel roads, we might have come from completely different directions, and we ‘might head off in completely different directions or in the same direction, I don’t know. But it's almost lik ‘dental meeting; I don’t think it’s coincidental o ‘cant that so many people scem to be converging around certain nodes, I suppose you could say, of philosophical positions. Certain thought patterns emerge simultaneous! in very different places, and maybe in retrospect we will realize why they appear to have arrived there for different reasons and the historical significance of where and what it is. feel ina strange position with my work in that I can find parallels in other people's work, but I find. . . ’'m avoiding specifying people, you sce. .. I've got a problem. ‘There are very few people with whom talk about my work here in Vancouver. Now that’s not entirely because they're not around. For some reason I tend not to talka great deal about my art with people. There are people I feel a kinship with, in that I know they partly understand the way I'm thinking, and I understand the way they're thinking about their art, and I don’t need to talk about it know that if we talked we'd probably agree. I love to see their work when they produce it, because in their work they crystallize those common concerns. They will have probably taken some of those things that I'm concerned About a few steps further than I've reached, and maybe in ‘my work I do the same to them. I subscribe to and read a Tot of magazines on contemporary art, international maga- ines, I'm very interested in what's happening in other places, particularly in Europe. 1 don't think we hear ‘enough of what's happening in Europe or anywhere else outside North America. McINTYRE: Is that because a great deal of the contem porary art scene just doesn’t seem to be happening around here anyway to begin with? Do you feel there is that sort fof void and that sort of schism, which is why you can’t find a touch here with dialogue? BEREGRY: It could be — but then on the other hand 1 think I'm dealing with my own personality, and I don’t know what its like for other people because I tend to work, when I work, in isolation and talk about it in retro spect, Because when I'm in the middle of it I'm not ready to talk about it, For example, some time ago, 1 made the choice of talking about the latest piece on’ which I'm ‘working, and now I have constantly to update people because each time I see them so much has changed. Another thing is that cach year since I've been in Canada T've left the country and gone elsewhere. I've been able to afford it because I've worked all the time. When I

PA IIIA IAA III ISA AICI

Info on the show (Foundation)

Les objets d’art are to be submitted on Friday April 6 at the fourth floor Water Street, up until 9:00 PM. A ‘maximum of four works per student may be submitted. Only currently enrolled students may bring in work and these must have been produced during the year (though not necessarily inthe workshops).

'A brief form may accompany each piece for identi- fication and explanation, These forms will be available before the end of the month. Individual or group produc tions in virtually any medium including slides, film, and video, may be submitted. Also, student documenta- tion of classes and projects will be welcome.

Presentation and details of the show are being han: dled by Sam Carter's class. The criteria for selection are being hammered out jointly by a student-faculty commit tee comprited of Alison Browse, Stephen Clarke, Steve Harrison, Susan Hillman, Dale Hunter and Sandra Platt

‘The show will be held in the Robson Square Media Centre in the new courthouse complex. A good public location with good facilities for various media.

Opening night will be Tuesday April 17 at 7:00 P.M. The show will run from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M. April 18 to 27 Monday through Saturday.